Wills and probate

[EeyoreBlue]

The life insurance would probably have been to cover the mortgage on the house, so not 100% sure whether the policy would be in his name or his wife would have been the named beneficiary. 

Are coroner's verdicts available online or only on the death certificate?

[mazi]

No the probate record won't show creditors.
The life insurance is not relevant as, if it is paid it is paid to the named person on the policy and does not form part of the deceased persons estate.

Mike

Unless the named person is the life assured, I know from personal experience.

Yes you are correct there, I must think before I post.

I am not sure about coroners verdicts being online, but are often reported in local newspapers  but there are many clauses in insurance small print which enables  them to refuse to pay out,  regardless of any coroners verdict.

Mike

[mazi]

Dos this help,  if I am correct, and there was no will in 1989, then a surviving wife, be it first or second wife, would inherit her spouses personal chattels and the first £ 75,000, absolutely. If the estate was worth more than £75,000 then children of the deceased would have been entitled to a share of anything above £75,000, although the surviving wife may have a lifetime interest in the house.

Mike

[EeyoreBlue]

That helps in that it may explain why the sum of £70000 was used.  It was perhaps the value of the house, plus any other personal effects.

[EeyoreBlue]

The timeline of this and a bit more explanation is as follows:

My friends parents married, and we presume bought their house (with a mortgage).  They then had my friend about 3 years later.  Her Father died 3 years later (from suicide).  She has been told that there was no money and that her grandparents had to help her mum with money to keep the house (this doesn't sound right to her if there was supposedly £70000 declared for probate).  About 2 years later, her paternal grandfather died (second example of probate record).  She has been told (from various sources, but not her mum) that she was the main beneficiary, and that the money was put in trust for her.  Her grandfather was very elderly, and owned his own home, without mortgage and we don't think there would be many, if any debts.  Therefore, in theory, somewhere there should be circa £115000 which may exist for my friend.

However, her mum told her that her grandad's friend's family got all the money because they "fiddled it".  She did not mention my friend being a beneficiary at all.  Her mum cannot or will not give her any further details, and due to other circumstances, my friend is now estranged from her mum. 

My friend lives in the same (small) town where all this happened, and her mother uses the only law firm in the town (as almost everybody else in the town does too), so using any legacy to find her seems a bit odd.

We have ordered a copy of the Grandfather's will, and she's going to see if she can search local newspaper records for any inquest regarding her father's death.  Sadly, she has very few memories of her dad/grandad, and her mum doesn't appear to have kept any photographs.  She has been aware of this situation for a while, but due to the fallout with her mum, didn't feel strong enough to look into it.

[mazi]

"not in excess of XXXX" amount. 

I think this was to do with declarations for death duty - the executor will have certified that the estate was worth no more than the stated amount.

You cannot assume that that your friends father left £70,000, that is a legal way of saying that there are no death duties to be paid, the actual value could be much less, there possibly was still a large mortgage on the house to be paid off.

Remember that in 1989/1990 we were  in the middle of a financial crisis, house prices were falling and difficult to sell and an accurate valuation may not be possible, hence the estimate for probate.

Let us know what the will says.

Mike

[EeyoreBlue]

Thank you.  The house was sold a few years later (about 1994).  By this time her mother had remarried.

Unfortunately, her mum is known the twist the truth, so she cannot be sure of anything, which is why she is questioning things.

[EeyoreBlue]

Thanks all to have input so far.  I have a bit more information.

My friend contacted her aunt (married to mother's brother) who confirmed that there was life insurance and that the mortgage was paid off with this.  The only explanation my friend can come up with is that due to her father dying by suicide, there was an inquest, and it may be that her grandparents helped her mother out between the death, and the inquest, when she could make a claim on the life insurance.  However, she is unable to verify this.

Her aunt also confirmed that she believed there was some sort of trust fund for my friend.  As suspected, it has come from her grandfather. 

My friend messaged her mother, who has again denied all knowledge of any inheritance from her grandfather.

On Friday, a copy of the Will from her grandfather arrived.  She was indeed named as a beneficiary, and inherited a 3rd of his estate.  The other two thirds when to her mother and her grandfather's companion respectively.  My friends mother was the executor of the will, and from court documents, it looks like she obtained probate in person.  The downside to this, is that the last line reads "The 1/3 allotted to XXXX is to be used at the discretion of her mother, XXXXX."

My friend now does not know what to do.  She firmly believes there is no money, (that her mother has used it),  but is unsure on what next step to take.  She would like to at least know how this money was used, and in what way she benefitted.  She thinks that her mother will say it paid for your first car, or her wedding, if she acknowledges it even exists at all.

Anyone who has any advice, it would be gratefully appreciated.

[dawnsh]

Please get them to seek professional legal advice from a local solicitor who specialises in probate matters.

You can find names on the Law Society website

http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/

The executors to wills are entrusted to carry out the wishes as itemised. We are not privy to all the details and there may be an element of fraud here if she cannot prove that the money was specifically used as suggested for a car or wedding.

Whatever the outcome, your friend seems to have now lost trust in her mother.