Author Topic: Sasine records - help!  (Read 4136 times)

Offline ThumbelinaPM

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Sasine records - help!
« on: Monday 29 May 17 16:02 BST (UK) »
Just had a trip to Edburgh and have returned with copies of 14 sasine records.

Does anyone enjoy trying to decipher these or is there any standard wording you could link me to?
I have sussed Att. and the year format Jajvi etc. That still leaves an awful lot to decipher an transcribe.

Any help greatly appreciated. ???

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,571
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #1 on: Monday 29 May 17 21:22 BST (UK) »
Some notes available from the NRS which include:

http://webarchive.nrscotland.gov.uk/20170106021747/https://nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/sasines

 Understanding a sasine

The basic structure of a sasine is straightforward. It will begin with the date, and thereafter sets out the principal parties (usually with the grantee/buyer named first), the type of transaction, including the land involved, the precise time that it took place, and the names of the witnesses. Sasines before the early 20th century are normally handwritten, however. While Victorian copperplate handwriting is simple to read, the handwriting of the 17th and early 18th centuries can be much more difficult. Practice, as always, makes it easier. Nor does it help that for many years the clerks paid for the blank sasine volumes out of their wages and so had a vested interest in cramming as much handwriting onto each page as possible. A more serious obstacle is that many sasines, even down to the late 18th century, are in Latin. Again these follow a standard form. A Latin dictionary together with the styles and translations of sasines given in Peter Gouldesborough, 'A Formulary of Old Scots Legal Documents' (Stair Society, Edinburgh, 1985) pp. 108-111, will allow most readers to understand what is going on.


Also www.scan.org.uk/knowledgebase/topics/sasine_abbs_topic.htm

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,512
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #2 on: Monday 29 May 17 21:32 BST (UK) »
Why not post the first page of one and we'll see if we can start you off.
I know they can be incredibly difficult to decipher, especially the early ones.
It's not just the handwriting, and the fact the the scribes had to pay for the paper ( so I'm lead to believe), which meant they squeezed in as much as possible with very cramped writing, but also the particular Scottish words and terms that are used in them.
Ah, the joys of genealogy!  ;)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline ThumbelinaPM

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 07:37 BST (UK) »
Dont think I can make the doc snall enough to scan and upload.
We'll have a go and see how far we get.
Thank you both.


Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,512
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 09:30 BST (UK) »
You can always do it in bits Thumbelina - say, the top third or quarter.
This has worked ok in the past.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline ThumbelinaPM

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 12:32 BST (UK) »
here is the first part of 1 of 14 sasines!

Offline ThumbelinaPM

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 12:34 BST (UK) »
Andrew Thomson pt 2

Offline ThumbelinaPM

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 12:43 BST (UK) »
Andrew Thomson Pt 3 & 4

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,512
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sasine records - help!
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 30 May 17 23:26 BST (UK) »
So first two clips:


Seasine
Andrew Thomson

Att Hamilton the second day of September Jajvijle and fifty
seven years the seasine underwriten was produced by Basil
Golder (?) writer in Hamilton and writt(en) the said day as follows


In the Name of God amen let it be known to all men by this present pubblick Instrument that upon the twenty
first day of July Jajvijle and fifty seven years and Reign of our So(veri)gn Lord George the Second Be the thirty first year
In presence of me notary publick and witneses subscribing Compeared personally ane Discreet man Mathew Thomson younger of whiteridge Baillie in that part by the precept of Seasine after insert specially Constitute
unto with another Discreet man andrew Thomson of whiteridge aforesaid and attorney for andrew Thomson his
youngest lawfull son the said Andrew Thomson [  ] fores(ai)d having in his hamds ane heretable Bond of


compeared =  appeared
ane = one

the Date under written made and Granted by John Thom of Barnhead To the said andrew Thomson his son
whereby for the Cause therein specified the said John Thom Bound and obliged him his heirs & [   ]
lawfully and sufficiently under the Reversion therein and under writen To Infeft and Sease the said
andrew
Thomson younger his heirs and assigneys In all and Haill his haill lands and mailling of Barnhead with
houses Biggings yeards mosses mairs meadows parts pendicles and Haill pertinents thereof with the Teinds parsonage
and vicaraige of the said Lands all Lying in the parish of East Monkland and Sherrifdome of Lanark as the
therein is att presently possist by himself and his tennants and in ane yearly @rent of two hundred and
twenty two merks six shillings and eight pennys Scots money or in such ane ? @rent less or more as
shall answer and Correspond to the principal summe of  five thousand two hundred and fifty merks Scots


‘all and haill’ = everything
@ =  ‘annual rent’
‘mailling’ - I think it’s a variant of this http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/maling_vbl_n_n

The gap at the top after ‘heirs’ would be something like ‘Executors’ but I can’t quite make out what is probably a contraction of the word.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs