Author Topic: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle  (Read 1917 times)

Offline cpercival

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Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« on: Tuesday 06 June 17 17:43 BST (UK) »
I know this is a very long shot but I am trying to trace a prayer desk from the Church of St John the Evangelist, Carlisle.  Lurking in some old family papers I recently found a parish magazine from 1941 which described the presentation of a prayer desk dedicated to Thomas and Sarah Percival by their son George Percival.  George was my Grandfather and they were my Great Grandparents. Last week I visited the church with some American cousins, also George's grandchildren, and we hoped to see this prayer desk with it's inscription.  The church has undergone considerable renovation and we were advised by the current Vicar that the prayer desk, along with the choir stalls, was disposed of as part of the renovation in 2010.  The Vicar has no knowledge of where the furnishings went.  Has anyone out there seen it and can they put me in touch with the present owner(s)?  As I say a long shot but nothing ventured........

Clive

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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 17:56 BST (UK) »
Have you considered writing to the local newspaper and appealing for information about the prayer desk?

You never know, someone may remember what happened to it.

I take it that you don't have a photo of it.
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Offline JenB

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 18:12 BST (UK) »
The re-ordering of the church was the subject of a Faculty http://www.ecclesiasticallawassociation.org.uk/index.php/judgmentlist/reordering/botcherby

I'd have thought there must be a record in PCC minutes of what happened to the church furnishings that were removed.

Try emailing the PCC secretary http://www.stjohnscarlisle.plus.com/sue.html  Point out that the prayer desk in question was effectively a memorial (was there a memorial plate/inscription on it?) and that the family would like to know how it was disposed of.
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Offline cpercival

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 13:31 BST (UK) »
Many thanks both for your suggestions.  Regrettably no I don't have a picture, however I'll follow up with the PCC.  The link to the faculty concerns St Andrew at Botcherby whereas I am looking at St John the Evangelist at Botchergate.  I don't know if a similar faculty applied here.  Anyway I'll follow these up and any further suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks again

Clive

Offline JenB

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 13:43 BST (UK) »
So sorry for that error, I do apologise.
Any major re ordering would have required a faculty. However whether that would include the removal of a portable item such as a prayer desk is another matter.
Too often these things have been disposed of without thought or without any record of where they have gone. A memorial prayer desk of some importance at the church I attend was recently saved at the 11th hour. Other items known to be at the church in the past have vanished without trace.
If you get no satisfactory answer from the PCC you could try Girl Guide's idea of contacting the local Carlisle newspaper - someone might well know.
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Offline Rena

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 14:15 BST (UK) »
I see from surfing the wb that there seems to be several companies that specialise in selling church fixtures and fittings, such as pews, etc.

I've been on the Carlisle Diocese website and it seems from one of the downloads that the Church Warden has to keep a log of the building maintenance. 

The Building Maintenance is entitled "Terrier and Inventory", for which there is another download.

Hope this helps

http://www.carlislediocese.org.uk/our-diocese/buildings-and-property/repairs-and-maintenance.html

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Offline JenB

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 14:44 BST (UK) »
I've been on the Carlisle Diocese website and it seems from one of the downloads that the Church Warden has to keep a log of the building maintenance. 

Hi Rena  :)  that's why I suggested contacting the Parochial Church Council secretary, who would be able to pass on cpercival's enquiry to the correct person. Whether the disposal of a prayer desk would be logged is another matter  :(
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Offline Rena

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 08 June 17 13:06 BST (UK) »
I've been on the Carlisle Diocese website and it seems from one of the downloads that the Church Warden has to keep a log of the building maintenance. 

Hi Rena  :)  that's why I suggested contacting the Parochial Church Council secretary, who would be able to pass on cpercival's enquiry to the correct person. Whether the disposal of a prayer desk would be logged is another matter  :(

Yes I thought that was the case.  It seems strange that the vicar didn't mention any possibilities of who to approach in his own church, as I'm presuming there has to be a book or ledger containing the inventory.  Possibly an auction house removed everything for disposal and I'm assuming it will be nigh impossible to trace the prayer desk now, especially as we don't know what it looked like.  Most salvage yards and companies specialising in selling church fixtures and fittings don't mention where the items originated, all except one that sold very expensive desks and named the original church.

I've searched for images of church interiors but the only image to appear online of this church has been the modern interior.  Back in the 1950s-1960s I knew a chap who collected calendars depicting churches.  As St John's is a large historical church I'm pretty sure that somewhere there'll be an old black & white photo of the interior showing the prayer desk.
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Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Missing prayer desk, Carlisle
« Reply #8 on: Friday 09 June 17 16:14 BST (UK) »
Might local weddings have included it in photographs around the time? Worth trying local history socs, etc?
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