Griffith Jones

[Gadget]

The most likely death burial for Sarah is Nov 1851.

Burial, Ruabon  ~17th Nov 1851 Sarah Williams, of Cefn Mawr, aged 62.

It looks as if both John and Sarah rounded their ages down in the 1851 census.

Will see if I can find a baptism* for her.

* found possibles -  Sarah Edwards and Sarah Jones

[Gadget]

A bit more ~

Llangollen - Weslyan
12 Nov 1820 Samuel, John Williams, butcher, and Sarah, Cefn Mawr

Also - very tempted by this one at Cefn Mawr Weslyan
Born 24 Feb 1830 bpt 16 March 1837 Elizabeth Williams, daughter  John Williams and Sarah (Sarah entered as mn Edwards - daughter of Samuel and Mary Edwards).
Elizabeth is right age for the one on the 1851 and witness to 1850 marriage.

This last one on the basis that there was some evidence of use of family names, so son Samuel and an older daughter called Mary.

Will investigate some more later today 

[Wodgemac]

Gadget, I haven't read the George Borrows book, but I shall look for it, although from reading the extract you posted it sounded a very dark place, maybe that's why Griffith and Eliza left? Although I can't imagine moving to the industrial city of Manchester wouldn't have been much better??

I shall definitely pay the Holly Bush and the Hand hotel a visit some time in the near future. You can't beat a good pit stop, but I shall have the missus with me to order in Welsh lol...
Her mothers maiden name is Williams, so I'm hoping somewhere down the line I don't come across a link!!!

I'm slightly confused about John and Sarah Williams having an Eliza and and Elizabeth in the family? Wouldn't Eliza be short for Elizabeth?

[Gadget]

I'm slightly confused about John and Sarah Williams having an Eliza and and Elizabeth in the family? Wouldn't Eliza be short for Elizabeth?

Not necessarily.  We know that Eliza's parents were the John and Sarah (from baptism (1823) and marriage entry (1850)) and Elizabeth is down as daughter on the 1851 (b.c. 1830)  and is baptised with them as parents and is a witness to Eliza and Griffith's marriage.   It might well be from family names - one called Eliza and one called Elizabeth.

I've got more info on the Sarah Edwards theory but it's on my main computer - it looks highly possible at the moment.


PS - note a sister Harriet on the 1851 

PPS - someone else has found sisters Eliza and Elizabeth - http://www.babynamewizard.com/forum/eliza-and-elizabeth-same-same-but-different

[Wodgemac]

Aah I see about the Eliza Elizabeth, I have an Irish ancestor who was called Elizabeth, but on some records she was either Eliza or Bessie.

Yes I've noticed Harriet and am currently trying to research the brothers and sisters of both Eliza and Griffith, to see if that gives me any clues.

Can I ask where you got the marriage record for Eliza and Griffith and the other baptism records please? Are they online?

[Gadget]

Now found further proof that Sarah's maiden name was Edwards:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1RR-X58

Info mainly via FamilySearch,  Clwyd FHS booklets and CDs.  Also there's considerable info that reproduces these on FindMyPast and Ancestry (pay sites).

[Gadget]

If info on Sarah Edwards is correct (see Elizabeth's bapt entry). Sarah's baptism could be this one, from Llangollen parish record transcripts, Clwyd FHS.

Jan 15 1791 (brn Jan 2)
Sarah daughter of Samuel Edwards , farmer, and Mary. Residing Trefor Uchaf ( a township of Llangollen parish close to Cefn Mawr).

[Wodgemac]

AH thank you, so that is proof of Sarah Edwards then. 

I do have an account with Ancestry and findmypast, although I've stopped the findmypast for now.

I've just found a link to John Williams 1789 on another family tree on ancestry, in her tree it says his parents were Hugh and Mary? But that's all..

[Gadget]

Does it sat where John was born?

A possible death/burial for John Williams the butcher:

Ruabon
19th October 1869 John Williams, 82, Cefn Mawr

I've checked wills/probate for  1866 +/- 5 but nothing.

Link to Clwyd:

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/