Ellen Burke

[heywood]

I have now found further snippets

1937:Arthur Donovan Joseph Raymond Peter Wilkinson Burke("an artist" aged 19).presumably Raymond Peter as born,and his brother Arthur Donovan Joseph Wilkinson Burke ("a traveller,aged 25) of Harrow Weald are charged with an offence involving a loaded pistol.

Regards
Roger

Raymond was registered as Raymond Francis Joseph.

[despair]

I've found a further 1937 snippet - following the court case referred to,the younger brother is sentenced to 3 years in Borstal and the elder brother 3 years in gaol.

Regards
Roger

[heywood]

I wonder if these things were known to the family - the ones with the brothers, I mean.

The one for Arthur snr in 1925 would seem to be the one that might give more information about him and, I think, might mention the family. The snippet seems to imply a custodial sentence.

From what Coomera writes earlier re Violet's birth, he would need to be around late '25 - early '26. I think the newspaper date was November 1925 

[Coomera]

Phew! this is something - the granddaughters are not too impressed. There is one interesting point: Raymond (Peter) must have got remission for joining the army as he was with the BEF and was captured in Northern France trying to get to Dunkirk in 1940. He spent nearly six years in Poland and almost died on the "death marches" of 1945 until rescued by the Americans and flown back to London.
Regarding "did the family know?" - I would say yes, as the address of Harrow Weald was a house that Ellen rented (backed onto Harrow School playing fields) where she and all the children lived - she herself working in Harrow. They were there until well after the war. Donovan (known as Don) may have still been in trouble after the war as when I first knew the family he was not around and suddenly appeared. He too never married.

[Coomera]

Many thanks for the brilliant work by all concerned. I am now confident that I have Ellen's mother & father (James & Margaret) and her birth. Just need to find out what happened to Margaret that led to her baby going to Elizabeth to be raised. Re the males, thanks so much for this, I could never have traced it all. The 1949 court case is Donovan, as Ellen bought a small business after the war with her inheritance (the house at St Annes in part). They all worked in it until it failed in the early fifties.
Fantastic result!      john.

[heywood]

Good to hear that, Coomera.
Was Ellen definitely raised by Elizabeth or just schooled by her? She was back in Blackburn in 1911.
It could just be that, as the only girl, Elizabeth wanted to give her a chance. She had done well for herself by marrying and perhaps wanted something similar.
Regards
Heywood

[Coomera]

I was always told that she was raised by Elizabeth and the fact that she kept Ellen in some luxury (a maid, housekeeper, and girls at boarding school) indicates she was very attached to her. I think that she and James were both living in Scarborough at the time of the marriage. Ellen went to the famous RC school at Harrogate (so she said) but after Joseph died Elizabeth seemed to have moved her to The Mount School in York. Given that Ellen was raised as a middle class woman with no job skills I find it hard to grasp how she married a Draper's Assistant, which would have been at the lowest of income levels. How did they meet? Perhaps this cross cultural marriage just did not work out with Arthur trying to keep up with his wife's income. The past - they do things differently there.
best wishes,   john.

[heywood]

James and Margaret, Ellen's parents seem to have lived in the Blackburn area until their deaths.
Ellen in 1911 is in the Blackburn area near her birth family and not living the life of a middle class woman but perhaps as an educated young woman.
It is difficult to look back now at motives but I would think that, as said previously, Elizabeth had no children and helped to raise her niece - being the only girl but we don't know.
As for how they met - it could have been in the shop   

How does Elizabeth refer to her in her will? Does she indicate 'adopted daughter' relationship or niece?

[Coomera]

Well, I was told that when she went up to London to train at the Savoy Hotel in 1930 that this was the first time that she had worked. The date indicated to me that perhaps Elizabeth's income had fallen due to the stock market crash and she could no longer pay for Ellen & the children. It was assumed that she would never be in that position.  Elizabeth must have continued some support as they lived better than her salary would have indicated. As Ellen was married from Scarborough, she may have gone back there, where Elizabeth was living (I think!) Have not seen the will myself, but I do know that Ellen was intended to be the sole benificiary, at least that it is what I was told.    regards,   john.