John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.

[ShaunJ]

Re passenger lists, I noticed a "J. Joice " arrived Dunedin on the Gil Blas from Melbourne on 28 November 1855. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/otago-witness/1855/12/1/2

The passengers gave a letter of thanks to the captain. The signatures include a James Joyce.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18551208.2.7

[Moffitt77]

Yes, other family members like that ship as well. I am trying to decide which of the many ships bringing James Joyce to this country could be relevant and then I will track down the embarkation papers where possible. There were hundreds of ships crossing the Tasman to NZ, even to the extent of have very regular mail boats. Records for them are very brief in content.

On your advice I have had a  better look at Channel Island records. A James Joyce was born there on 16 June 1827. This could make him the 14 year old boy that you mentioned earlier. He was born to James Joyce and Ann La Source. I know nothing else about him yet. Perhaps the family was from Southhampton earlier?

[Moffitt77]

I am new to looking at DNA results, and may have done this search incorrectly, but I have, today, come up with details very interesting to me. The most significant, when I do a search in my list of matches for the names I know in the two Joyce lines that I have discussed here, I get:

* 13 matches, fourth to sixth cousins for the name Hollow (exact spelling) - mother of Michael Joyce
* 15 matches,  fourth to sixth cousin for the name Bailey (exact spelling) - wife of John Joyce

Half of these two sets of matches involve the same researchers. Does this alone connect the two families? Perhaps too early to say.

* 4 matches, fourth to sixth cousins for the name Hall (exact spelling) - wife of Daniel Bailey Joyce

Numerous matches, show distant cousins for the name Hall, which contain exactly the SAME researchers as the HOLLOW ones above. Exact spelling used to check.

Inexperience aside, as well as possible false matches,  I think that there is a distinct DNA connection between Captain Michael Joyce, John Joyce of Beckington, and me.

If I count back, Me + father Clifford + grandfather William James + great grandfather John Parker Joyce + gggfather Michael Joyce or brother + ggggfather John Joyce, we see that these two latter men are four and five degrees away from me.

I think that this suggests that the two men called John Joyce are one and the same person.

I think that the four Hall fourth to sixth cousins and the further matching Hollow/Hall distant cousins bring Daniel Bailey Joyce into the picture indicating one further remove. Does that indicate also that he is Michael's brother?

To top this off, there are four matches to fourth to six cousins for the name Parker and nine pages of distant cousins. Perhaps that detail could put James Parker in the same generation as Capt Michael's and the Parker could be someone one or two removes from him, like Mary Ann Hollow's mother, etc.

The name Joyce has produced several pages of cousins, but only one close cousin, caused possibly by the fact that the only two male lines from William James have not yet tested for DNA.

There are distant cousin matches for ALL of the names that I have in both Joyce trees we have discussed here. Further there are eight names which produce fourth to sixth cousins.

Now for the reality test. I must follow up these tentative connections with proof.

[Moffitt77]

Oops, sorry. I put John Parker Joyce instead of James Parker Joyce in my last post.

Thank you all for your wonderful help. It will take me some time to work on these DNA results.

[ShaunJ]

One of JPJ's children was Arthur Francis Joyce ...have you seen the early Southampton directory listings for Francis Joyce, bookseller?  He was the subject of bankruptcy proceedings 1837-1839. Not sure what happened to him after that. 

[Moffitt77]

Wow! I wonder if he is the missing second son? I really believe that there could well be more than ten children. I quoted a Find a Grave source for that, but you can only know how many children there are if you are the actual parent?? Even then . . . I'm hoping for an Alexander, a William, and a Michael of course. Maybe a Frederick.

Frederick, Arthur, George, Walter, Oliver, James, and John figure in JPJ's immediate family, and yes, one son was John Arthur Francis Joyce. 

We are getting closer.

A while ago, I searched for an Arthur Joyce, writer. I will go through my notes to see if it fits. I did find a number of bankruptcies in The London Gazette but have not connected them- yet!

I am keeping the possibility of a change of name and have been looking at reasons for departure to the colonies, such as bankruptcy, divorce, criminality etc.

I think though, that there were so many of the name, James Joyce, that it would be safe to retain the name, and then put the middle name back in once settled again.

[Moffitt77]

I am still searching for relevant details about Arthur Francis Joyce. Not much luck so far.

William Joyce, Beckington,  with the widowed mother, Mary, (Most of them seemed to marry Mary) could well be a member of John Joyce's immediate family. Cousin marriage looks to be common in the Joyce family, going by the surnames which recur. I found a marriage for William Joyce and Mary Gibbs 1797, Beckington.

I seem to be surrounded by Ship's captains in this research. Could Daniel have been one also? There is evidence of a Daniel Joyce being master of several ships which plied the shores of New Zealand:-
 
Carbon - Master, Daniel Joyce - Wellington Independent 5 Feb 1848 (also 1845, 1847).
Lucy James - Master Daniel Joyce - Daily Southern Cross - 27 Feb 1852 (also 1851)
Cheetah - Daniel Joyce - NZ Spectator 8 June 1853,
General Cameron, Joyce - Southern Daily Cross- 9 June 1860
Keera - Commander D Joyce - West Coast Times - 18 Nov 1865 (also 1859)
Keera - Commander D Joyce - Otago Daily Times - 7 June 1867

By 1865 he was a commander and by 1866 he had added 'esq' to his name. Maybe he had 2 ships by this time? His lot in life also seems to improve after that big gold strike that I mentioned to you.

To begin with, potential customers had to apply to the Captain at his lodgings. By 1865 he had an agent, and that agent was initially 'Joyce and Gallop', in Hokitika, and by 1867 the agent was Wm H Joyce, or William H Joyce. I wondered if the initial H would connect him to Daniel Bailey Joyce - signifying Hall?

I found a household for Daniel Joyce in Canongate, Dunedin - Otago Daily Times 28 April 1865.
Daniel Joyce married Mary Carroll in 1876

Several children were born in NZ to them:-
1877 Margaret
1880 Agnes
1882 Lilian
1883 James
1886 William

Another ship's captain called Joyce also has connections with New Zealand. On 1 July 1908, there was a marriage between Thomas Kennedy and Louisa Sylvia (Louie) Lawrence, youngest daughter of Stephen Lawrence, and granddaughter of CAPTAIN JAMES JOYCE OF JERSEY. Her mother was probaly the captain's daughter.

The James Joyce to whom you alerted me to as being 14 in 1851 and on the island of Jersey was also the son of James Joyce, and an obviously French wife (mentioned here earlier.) This answers a few questions about JPJ's early life, eg his stated early sojourn there, his eloquence in the French language. His father being a master of a ship also answers the question as to why we cannot find when he came to NZ. It could also explain his easy entry into a Customs job?

I cannot get any further into the Channel Islands records. I believe that they, along with the Isle of Wight, had a special relationship with Britain, and were partly separate as well. This is very interesting because another important Joyce family was located in the Isle of Wight, Blandford, Shapwick, eg the White Mill Joyce family, as I call them.

This research twist and turns like an octopus, and is as clever as one too.

[ShaunJ]

There is evidence of a Daniel Joyce being master of several ships which plied the shores of New Zealand

That's the one from Jersey that I mentioned in Reply#42:

Just wondering if there is a connection with Captain Daniel Joyce (1816-1884), a mariner from Jersey, who came to New Zealand in the 1840's (possibly earlier) and died in Fiji in 1884. Father James Joyce, mother Isabella Watson

.

[Moffitt77]

Thank you. I missed the word Jersey. Should have read through this again. Sorry.

I have found an unusual note (Otago Daily Times, 12 May 1869.) about a person who sailed for Fiji on the Matilda Hayes from Akaroa ahead of a party from Dunedin with a warrant for the arrest of Joyce. The suggestion was that it 'intimately concerned' a cutter which 'lately changed hands'. Many creditors were said to be distressed.

A further comment indicated that the civil case H S Chapman v Daniel Joyce had been adjourned for a day.

I have found no more information yet, but it looks as if he may not have returned to NZ.