James Brown and two women in Edinburgh - could it get any more difficult?!

[Millmoor]

Wonderfully put, Monica. I  can just about see how the Isabella/ Jeannie name swap might have started and become unstoppable - the part I  really do not get is Isabella's parents names  on her marriage to James Brown.

William

[isobelw]

William, great find for Isabella Cumming  It is her, living in Glasgow. It confirms her marriage to James Brown, slater. Death reported by her sister. Parents as we have up in Dornoch Sutherland.

Jeanie taking on Isabella Cumming's identity is looking very possible...never come across this before...but why not really. They couldn't marry until after Isabella had died and she lived till 1928.

I'm a bit confused by this as OP has stated that Isabella died in 1945 ( one of the few things that seems certain)
Isobel

[MonicaL]

Neither do I, William 

The main thing I am holding on to is the link through from the forgotten (likely) first child Rose Horn Brown born 1889. Her birth details with marriage of parents confirming what we have from 1888 (inspite of errors). Rose then with maternal grandfather in Sutherland in 1891 and 1901. First marriage in 1913 (haven't checked second marriage in 1917). All pretty consistent for her.

Her mother and (likely) James' first wife, Isabella Cumming's death confirmed the details back to the Sutherland family that we found.

With James Brown in the middle of all of this 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Hi Isobel 

Certainly a complete confusion in names. These are some of the other details that tilliemay has posted. There are more throughout the thread, but getting lengthy and easy to miss them:

Hello all - iluleah, Kay and Monica - thanks for the welcome and huge thanks for trying to unravel my mystery/mess!

I'll have to read and study all your suggestions - the only thing I can answer without thinking about it, is the question you asked Monica, about Isabella's death on 16 June 1945 - the informant is my husband's Granny, Elizabeth - Isabella died at her house, where my mother-in-law was born/grew up.  So that's a definite!  The death cert gives Hugh Cumming (gamekeeper) and Isabella m.s. Anderson as her parents. Couldn't trace them on ScotlandsPeople - I wonder if I should look further afield, England or Ireland? 

My m-i-l only knew her Aunt Annie, to her knowledge there was only Annie and her mum Elizabeth.  This of course wouldn't mean there wasn't another child who had died as a baby.  She also knew her Granny Isabella - or Granny Broon as she was known (she was the only lady that ever visited Niddrie in a fur coat!)  When I mentioned the name Jeanie Montgomery to my m-i-l it meant nothing, although it is the name her mum Elizabeth gave for her mother when she was married in 1907.  Eight years later when Annie got married she gave Isabella Cumming as her mother - both marriages are definitely correct as the husbands are the right ones.

The date of birth on Annie's birth certificate, which shows her as the illegitimate daughter of Jeanie Montgomery, is also correct as it's the same as on her death certificate - 8 Feb 1897.  Father is left blank, although she was given Brown as a middle name.

The dob on Elizabeth's birth certificate is one day out from the day she celebrated her birthday but not sure how relevant this is, I'm sure this kind of mistake happened, particularly if birth certificates bearing the word illegitimate were kept hidden.

The death certificates for both ladies had the mother's details reversed - Isabella Cumming on Elizabeth's (1969) and Jeanie Montgomery on Annie's (1978).  Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I keep hoping it'll make sense!

Yes Monica, I agree the 1901 Census entry fits well, as does the 1891 Census from Airdrie (m-i-l knows her mother was born in the Glasgow area) - apart from the different mother.  Or is she different, may be one morning Jeanie woke up and decided to call herself Isabella!

I'll have a closer look at the suggestions for James see if I can make it fit but without a marriage certificate for him and either Isabella or Jeanie, I'm not sure how I'll do that.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was no marriage, I've found a few that said they were married when they weren't!

One last thing, comparing the 1900 birth certificate for Jane and her death certificate in 1903 - the informant was James Brown on both and the signatures look the same.  But the mother is different - Isabella Cumming on the birth and Jane Brown m.s. Montgomery on the death.

I noticed that on Jane's birth certificate James was recorded as being in the Army Reserve - I went on to Fold3 and found papers for a James Brown, correct date, correct regiment but completely the wrong wife!  Enter Mary . . . obviously the wrong James.......

[MonicaL]

James must have listened to our exasperation and has decided to be a little helpful 

He died at the age of 70 in 1929 in the Royal Infirmary from a gastric ulcer haemorrhage. 'Isabella Brown' reported his death and left her mark.

James' death shows him as James Meaney Brown which lets us confirm that earlier birth to Mary Brown in 1859 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ5W-3XK At least that is fully confimed now and we have him with mother and maternal grandmother in 1861. From his marriage to Isabella Cumming in 1888, he gave his mother's married name which has let us confirm her details from her marriage to Andrew Bennet.  This all helps to provide proper and accurate confirmation on his line and also reconfirm that the 1888 marriage for him to Isabella Cumming from Sutherland was correct.

[MonicaL]

Not sure why it is not James that shows on the 1925 VRs at the address from the death reg:

Mrs Isabella BROWN - Inhabitant Occupier - HOUSE 37 PALMERSTON PLACE
EDINBURGH 1925
VR010000495

Monica

[Millmoor]

There are some good properties in Palmerston Place!

Just to say that Isabella Cumming signed her name on the  1888 marriage cert.

Great find, Monica!

To Isobel W - it is a fascinating tale but our hypothesis seems to be that the marriage of James Brown and Isabella Cumming broke down rather quickly. He then took up with Jean Montgomery who for some reason subsequently assumed the identity of Isabella Cumming . Hence the two Isabella Cumming death certs.

William

[isobelw]

There are some good properties in Palmerston Place!


To Isobel W - it is a fascinating tale but our hypothesis seems to be that the marriage of James Brown and Isabella Cumming broke down rather quickly. He then took up with Jean Montgomery who for some reason subsequently assumed the identity of Isabella Cumming . Hence the two Isabella Cumming death certs.

William

I have to agree that is definitely the way it looks!

[tillimay]

Great find Monica, I'm not sure how I missed that death for James Brown   

The fact that Isabella left her mark when registering his death, adds something to the name/identity swap idea because, as we know, Jeanie was also unable to sign her name.

I don't know why James' name isn't on the 1925 VR for the Palmerston Place address but I've checked the VR's back to 1920, when a Mrs Elizabeth Kirkwood is the Proprietor - all the residents were female, same for 1925.  I was a bit concerned at first but then I found this on the internet:

"Sims and Clare say that Ethel’s longest-lasting address in Edinburgh was 37 Palmerston Place. I did a day’s dredge myself in the Edinburgh Room at the City Library, through the Street Directories, the Valuation Rolls and the Voters’ Rolls. Referred to from 1926 onwards as Palmerston House, a legend still engraved on the glass above its chaste and dignified door, it appears to have been arooming house from 1920 onwards (though Palmerston Place, built from 1880 to 1883, had always been and still is a prestigious address, the last place you would expect to find such an establishment), with fifteen voters plus Ethel listed in 1926, though the average was usually about nine. They were accommodated on the three floors of this spacious house plus the attics. (The basement was occupied by one Mary Hinnigan, the caretaker, and was not a rated part of the house.) The rooms were separately rated, and graded according to their architectural status in the house. Ethel and Edith had the more modest rooms.

In 1921-2 Ethel lists herself as ‘authoress’; Edith is listed but indicates nothing of her profession, though in the 1922-3 Valuation Roll she describes herself as ‘a lecturer’. In 1923-4 Ethel is listed but Edith is not. In 1924-5 Ethel is still there, an authoress. The occupations of other tenants are variously given as nurse, shopwoman, clerk, cashier, missionary and masseuse, a respectable bunch of women going about their lawful business, but definitely girls of slender means, rather an unusual class of person to be living in Palmerston Place. In 1926 Ethel is in the Voters’ Roll at this address, but from 1927 on there is no word of her."

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but it's quite interesting!