NSW Lockley descendants? Holden;Reed; Willcocks;Hunter

[Jamjar]

Buried Stockinbingal Cemetery NSW:

LOCKLEY Edward Charles
LOCKLEY Frederic Charles, Florence Daisy

You can request headstone photos: http://www.ozgenonline.com/~Carols_Headstones/Stockinbingal.htm

Jamjar

[nowornever]

Jamjar
When I woke today and saw 3 more pages of posts I was almost too scared to look. So you don’t sleep or eat then? I feel that between you & Ros I must have most of Australia on my tree. Someone, surely, must contact me now!
Apologies again for the delay – the response has been overwhelming and there is no way that I have been able to read, print, digest it all, and respond in an orderly fashion. And as I explained previous posts to you have vanished. Back to now:-
         Firstly Gordon & Isabella
I did have the same parents as you for him- Mark T & Annie. And his death date. Not sure of his origins. But the info on his accident you found was interesting. He died a year later, wonder if his head injuries had something to do with that? - especially as Isabella survived him by 30 years. Then you find info about Lila’s (knew of her) marriage showing Isabella/ Isabel now prefers her middle name- Christina. So that would have lost her to me probably. I do have what looks like a record of floral tributes, on a card, from Taabinga  cemetery for another Isabella Reed but the death date is 1968 – age 83. So maybe some of the people listed will show up at some point.  Also got a marriage for Lesley Gladys Reed in 1842, no parents named, to Philip J Birch/ Liverpool NSW. Not sure about this yet. But you have provided much to check out. Thank you
Frederick Charles:
Sorry -I can now see that I have all the print out in front of me ( & don’t I need them) that I didn’t respond to you.(or did & lost it) Yes That is correct & he married Florence.  I have those parents for her; John & Susan but a query against a William & Elma from Grenfell. Your suggestion seems to be favourite.
This seems to be a family name- my father’s too. I only knew of one other in the family, a cousin of Thomas, who died young I think, & wondered about the origins. Then Thomas took it to Australia and his son passed it on to his son, with “Edward” added, and that is a family name.
I also have possible children for them, not checked out fully, “Elsie Florence m Peter Threkeld” L’pool 1947 & “Florence Mavis” m “ Harold  Greenbeyer” Temora 1952. Now there’s a couple of unusual names. I have a list of children for “a” Frederick but they are all well before his own births- so there’s another same named man in the area- mainly Braidwood.   I need to get to grips with the map refs that Gerry kindly sent to see these locations  - asap.
I seemed to lose Frederick – had him on 1939 & 1943 Rolls at Barmedman but unsure of his death- until Ross turned up the obituary. Thanks for info about the distance from there to W Wyalong. Those maps will be useful........am continuing

[nowornever]

Now the Holdens:-
I was thrilled to have the name “Parthenia” in the tree. Thought it would lead me to everyone! Wrong! Got the marriage, and George’s possible parents as John & Sarah M of Gulgong NSW born 1882, which would make him 90yrs at the death that you found ,but  you seem to suggest Thomas & Jane St Leonards. I missed them – but this needs checking. Also have a George Edward Holden who died 17 May 1971 and buried “Field of Mars” cemetery Ryde.  So more checking
Got the male children but not Bertha “Parthenia”, who you turned up and has to be theirs, or Lily. Note neither of them married. Thanks again for all their info and sending the links today for the death notices. Obviously not looked yet, but several downloads so someone is interested?  Hadn’t found the Pearce family either. You have been busy.
I’m confused about the Willcocks family. I can’t see where they might fit in. Just wondering, with all the speed you must go at, if they were meant for me? (posted today @ 11 24) Or have I lost the plot?

The Hunters:-
Now your Piece de Resistance…..and this is what I was so excited to tell you. (but lost it)                    My story started long ago trying to find Thomas. When I had dismissed all others of his age in the UK (many public trees owners would not agree) I began to look at the man who settled in NSW and married a widow. So I researched her, finding her background and marriage here in UK . Shortly after they left, on the Dharwar arriving Sydney 5th Oct 1883.  Edward was a bricklayer. Parthenia, yes that name really helped, was born 1884 and now, thanks to Majm, I know of her little brother.

 Edward died in 1887. Imagine that. 2 small children, away from , and a widow at 31 and probably broke. (dry your eyes – she gets Thomas) I looked at their “possible marriage” and tried not to believe it was Thomas . But I found out so much – it had to be. I had a coroner’s register but that didn’t tell me anymore about the accident Edward had, just that he died from his injuries. All I had was “My Husband. Died of a tragic accident at Merrylands” I also found this to be the inscription on the grave. I hadn’t seen the grave yet – but it turned out to be quite a memorial. Then I discovered, with a shock, that Ellen, Thomas and Edward were all resting together. This makes me feel she loved them both.

But you have no idea how many searches I did to find the circumstances of Edward’s death. It should have been easy,- name; -accident;- Merrylands, -date; Trove.  I had it all. Time & again I drew a blank. I discovered that there was “the mother of all storms” that night and wondered if that contributed. Then I found Merrylands, a railway and put 2+2 tog that Edward had been loading bricks and involved with a carriage. Someone, big, had paid for that memorial. And then YOU send me a link to prove it all. Thank you. Thank you.  I was blown away. May they all rest in peace.

So the Hunter searches you forwarded cannot be his family- unless he had relatives there. But you’ve been amazing. I am in your debt. Thanks aren’t enough to you all.

cheers about the tips to word process & copy over- it works
Pauline

[nowornever]

There are some ads for the property adjoining T.Lockley's
This property is described as being 23? Miles SW of Cootamundra and 3 miles west of Illabo railway station and within the Sebastopol, June and Eurongilly goldfield.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138439711

Ros

Thanks Ros
Now that I have finally responded to Jamjar I am able to methodically look at all links and respond.
This is most interesting and answers the dumb question I was going to ask of Gerry about "CP". I now know it's Conditional Purchase (Still not sure what it means though -probably if you don' t keep up the payments we have it back! Same old)
Cheers
Pauline

[Jamjar]

The Willcocks family are those of Florence who married Frederick Charles Lockley:

1279/1926 LOCKLEY Frederick C to WILLCOCKS Florence D ROCKDALE

The Hunters are those of the son of Ellen and Edward:

36171/1968 HUNTER Albert Edward parents EDWARD and  ELLEN CONDOBOLIN

The 'Bertha' Parthenia should be PARTHENIA daughter of Edward and Ellen Hunter.

Pauline, it seems to me that you have built your tree without official certificate confirmation. The only way to be sure who's who is to purchase certs and that is why I list the numbers from NSWBDM. Nothing is correct until verified. There is certainly no way of checking just by looking at cemetery listings as in your comment re: checking out George Edward Holden at Field of Mars. Sometimes we get lucky when we find folk of the names we are looking for buried together, but other times not.

George Edward Holden was cremated in 1972, not buried at FOM in 1971.

The reason for thinking that the George and 'Bertha' Parthenia are the correct folk is because the death notices name the correct children and they are in the same suburb as the son. Only a cert purchase would confirm if 'Bertha' is your Parthenia.

"George’s possible parents as John & Sarah M of Gulgong NSW born 1882, which would make him 90yrs at the death that you found, but  you seem to suggest Thomas & Jane St Leonards."

St Leonards is the suburb of Sydney where is death was registered. The marriage cert for Parthenia and George should give his parents names.

Jamjar

[majm]

.....
The Hunters:-
Now your Piece de Resistance…..and this is what I was so excited to tell you. (but lost it)                    My story started long ago trying to find Thomas. When I had dismissed all others of his age in the UK (many public trees owners would not agree) I began to look at the man who settled in NSW and married a widow. So I researched her, finding her background and marriage here in UK . Shortly after they left, on the Dharwar arriving Sydney 5th Oct 1883.  Edward was a bricklayer. Parthenia, yes that name really helped, was born 1884 and now, thanks to Majm, I know of her little brother.

 Edward died in 1887. Imagine that. 2 small children, away from , and a widow at 31 and probably broke. (dry your eyes – she gets Thomas) I looked at their “possible marriage” and tried not to believe it was Thomas . But I found out so much – it had to be. I had a coroner’s register but that didn’t tell me anymore about the accident Edward had, just that he died from his injuries. All I had was “My Husband. Died of a tragic accident at Merrylands” I also found this to be the inscription on the grave. I hadn’t seen the grave yet – but it turned out to be quite a memorial. Then I discovered, with a shock, that Ellen, Thomas and Edward were all resting together. This makes me feel she loved them both.

But you have no idea how many searches I did to find the circumstances of Edward’s death. It should have been easy,- name; -accident;- Merrylands, -date; Trove.  I had it all. Time & again I drew a blank. I discovered that there was “the mother of all storms” that night and wondered if that contributed. Then I found Merrylands, a railway and put 2+2 tog that Edward had been loading bricks and involved with a carriage. Someone, big, had paid for that memorial. And then YOU send me a link to prove it all. Thank you. Thank you.  I was blown away. May they all rest in peace.
So the Hunter searches you forwarded cannot be his family- unless he had relatives there. But you’ve been amazing. I am in your debt. Thanks aren’t enough to you all. ...

Any person looking at NSW BDM either online or on CD or as a family history buff using old fashioned tools available back in the era prior to internet should have found both the births for Ellen's children by Edward HUNTER.  I doubt that is something worthy of singling out any person to mention in an online post that is readily available to be read by anyone, even when not logged in.   

May I again suggest that as you have both the marriage cert for 1862 and the marriage cert for 1891 that you share a snip of the signatures of the groom for others to compare.   Alternatively if you already have the NSW birth certificates for Isabella or Frederick LOCKLEY, check to see who was the informant, as if Thomas was the informant a snip of it could be compared with the 1862 signature. 
 
JM

[Jamjar]

I think it is lovely to see you were thanked for finding the brother of Parthenia, JM. 

The problem with signatures, with so many years in between, is that our style of handwriting can alter dramatically. I known my own has over a 30 year period.

I don't think there is a way to ever know/prove that the two are the same Thomas and there certainly isn't any proof so far. I also don't think it matters. If Pauline wants to believe it then so be it. Maybe if she has attached herself to the wrong Australian family someone out there will see all the information we have provided and correct where she has erred.

Jamjar

[majm]

http://www.familytreecircles.com/lockley-hunter-holden-reed-willcocks-of-junee-paramatta-nsw-67403.html

JM

[majm]

I realise I am likely duplicating the link to the newspaper report, but due to the length of the thread .....  well I have followed up on the firm named in it, so I am duplicating to save others going back through the thread to find the link. 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/236761632   Tele 21 Nov 1887

  Worked at Goodlet and Smith
I am sure this was a large firm that I may have researched back in the 1970s ... with facilities at several locations, and so in keeping with then current practices, they may well have contributed to the costs of the large memorial at Rookwood. 

One of their entries in Sands Directory (this from 1885) reads:
GOODLET AND SMITH, importers and manufacturers of building materials,
493 George St (JM says this is in Sydney CBD)
2 Bathurst St (JM says this is in Sydney CBD)
9 George St W (W as in George Street West – ie up near where Central Railway Station was being constructed)
Riley Street pottery works, Surry Hills
Brickworks, Waterloo
Sawmills, Pyrmont (JM says likely supplying Colonial Sugar Refinery and/or John Lysaghts at Pyrmont at that time)

From Sands 1887 directory we learn that Goodlet & Smith’s fixed pay day was Thursday at 2.
http://cdn.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives/sands/1880-1889/1887-part11.pdf

A quick search of Trove shows the firm was around Sydney and nearby from at least 1861.   

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/goodlet-john-hay-3631  This article shows he and his wife were involved in various charities.   

ADD
Govt Gazette page 7561 26 October 1888 is one of several pages listing inquests etc in NSW for 1887 and against Edward's listing it shows nil assets. 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/219885178/14285950 

JM