Maggie Cameron - Noble - Smith (Toronto and area)

[cosmac]

Ida was on the census with the family in 1910 I think and the Woolley's had an infant, Clark in 1910

I am going to agree with Bbart that Mary Ann Cameron handed over her niece into the care of the Nobles - perhaps after she received the surprise of Maggie Fraser to care for shortly after her marriage.  The dates and places of birth fit for Maggie Cameron to have grown up in the Noble household leaving for Canada in 1909.  Edward could have been the father of Daisy - just not the real surname.

[Rosinish]

Lilly Fraser, illegitimate, Feb 19, 1909 Union poorhouse Parish of Nairn
No father listed, Mother Maggie Fraser general domestic servant - looks like she worked in Cawdor parish for Meikle Geddes (? ),  Informant was Maggie Fraser, mother and birth registered March 10, Nairn.
Mother was 'Domicile - Meikle Geddes'...place name of where she was living at the time.

Puts the February 26th sailing questionable?
Agree with that which adds more weight to there likely being only 1 Maggie in Canada using 2 surnames.

Cosmac, Did you notice if there was a 'RCE' attached with the birth?
I can't remember what words they use now but it would be in red above the image? If there's one, it would name the father.

Are there poor house records?
Yes but not online sadly.

Birth registration for Maggie Fraser's daughter Lily.  Registration at Nairn - there also appears to be one at Cawdor.

As Maggie was 'Domicile' in Cawdor it's likely the birth was registered in both parishes (I'm sure I have come across this before although I don't understand the reasoning)?

"There is no definite proof that Peter Fraser had an illegitimate daughter Maggie"

Possibles for Margaret Fraser but of course she could have gone anywhere/married anywhere such as heading south with Margaret Cant & not knowing her mother's surname at the moment doesn't help searching for a death but the mother could also have been a Fraser 

FRASER MARGARET
MCGREGOR JAMES 1907    123/ 1 Nairn

FRASER MARGARET
MACKAY ALEXANDER 1909    123/ 14 Nairn

"I would like to add that the Maggie Noble with brother Joseph back in Scotland was travelling with a daughter Victoria age 1 month"

That's very interesting PB as there's no births in those areas for 1908/1909 (incase the '1' was for yr rather than mnth) with name Victoria or indeed anywhere in Scotland with surname Noble or Cameron 

However, this one caught my eye...no prizes for guessing why 

NORTON DAISY VICTORIA 1909    573/1 2109 Paisley

More mystery & more questions 

Annie

Added...Marriage for the above Victoria
NORTON DAISY VICTORIA
MONAGHAN CHARLES 1936 Stirling

[cosmac]

There was nothing else with Lily's birth that would indicate a father.  No RCE or anything in red

[cosmac]

Posting the 1911 Census for Peter Fraser and Mary Ann (nee Cameron).  Will send link to the tree owner from ancestry that provided information on Maggie Fraser.  If she doesn't have the 1911 census she can access it from here.

[Rosinish]

Scotlandspeople has birth for Lilly Fraser and William MacLean Fraser.  Wonder what the maiden name of mother was.

http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/7ee3982d-4ecf-4053-ad40-71646c7e607b

If the father isn't named on the BC & there's no RCE then a marriage may name the father or a death even but I can't see a marriage or death.

The middle name MacLean would be a good clue to the father's surname.

Mother's maiden name looks to me to be Fraser (assuming)  the usual/normal way an illegitimate birth would/should be recorded.

Annie

[polarbear]

The large paper border crossing record relating to little Victoria appears to clearly state she is 1 month old. It also states she was born in Toronto.

The small card also indicates she was born in Toronto but at the bottom of the card it says she arrived St John on 05 Mar 1909 on the Empress of Ireland. This ship arrival is the same in Maggie's paperwork.

It's a bit difficult to reconcile a March arrival with a birth probably in October or so, so I suspect the ocean arrival perhaps doesn't pertain to the baby? There is no ocean arrival recorded on the large paper record for Victoria.

PB

[Rosinish]

The large paper border crossing record relating to little Victoria appears to clearly state she is 1 month old. It also states she was born in Toronto.

The small card also indicates she was born in Toronto but at the bottom of the card it says she arrived St John on 05 Mar 1909 on the Empress of Ireland. This ship arrival is the same in Maggie's paperwork.

It's a bit difficult to reconcile a March arrival with a birth probably in October or so, so I suspect the ocean arrival perhaps doesn't pertain to the baby?

I wasn't aware of Victoria's PoB as your post was the 1st I'd seen mention of her.

Could that be their way of putting things that Maggie was 'with child' when she arrived (a bit of a stretch) but... 

If only Victoria would show face now 

Annie

[bbart]

I think the ocean arrival just pertains to the mother, as (if I remember correctly) it says to refer to the mother's card in the same area of the card.

I figure Maggie was a month or two pregnant when she boarded the ship. (Ship left late Feb, arrived early March).

The fact they were debarred just boggles my mind.  How on earth did the USA border guards even know, unless something occurred on the train, or just before she boarded it, so the station could call ahead?  (Note to Sara: check the Toronto newspapers in Nov 1909 for a crazy lady and a baby causing some kind of commotion!)

[Rosinish]

I think the ocean arrival just pertains to the mother, as (if I remember correctly) it says to refer to the mother's card in the same area of the card.

The fact they were debarred just boggles my mind.  How on earth did the USA border guards even know, unless something occurred on the train, or just before she boarded it, so the station could call ahead? 

More boggling is the fact that both were debarred (as in together) looking as though they were mother & daughter yet no trace of Victoria since.

Surely Maggie wasn't in prison from then until 1911 'assuming' it's her

Annie