Author Topic: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location  (Read 3270 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 11 November 17 18:08 GMT (UK) »
The record I found was on Scotland's People and it is the actual document itself. I've also found him listed as 'of' Torridon/Kinlochewe, in a handwritten note about his marriage. He is listed 'of' a different place than his wife, so it is definitely not simply the place of marriage.
What is the other document?

Quote
I understand that it's asking if you were born in the same county. What I'd like to know, is if in 1790, the Isle of Lewis was PART of the county of Ross and Cromarty. Does anyone know?
Yes, it was.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline Skoosh

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 12 November 17 15:47 GMT (UK) »
The R & C history is quite complex, in 1790 it never existed. The various Cromarty components were part of the earldom of Cromarty, these Mackenzies were forfeit post the '45 & the county of Cromarty was later amalgamated with Ross which included Lewis.

Skoosh.

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Offline whatkaileysaid

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 12 November 17 16:10 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian - the other document was the copy of the actual 1841 census document. It's not simply the index from Family Search. It also corroborates with the marriage record and first daughter's birth record that indicates him being "of" the same place. 

Interesting, Skoosh. From what I've read it says the counties were brought together in 1889. Based on this, if he selected "Y" that was born in the same county (Ross?) during the 1841 census, would it have excluded the Isle of Lewis as a potential birthplace?

Any idea what county the Isle of Lewis was part of in 1841?


Morison (Isle of Lewis), Mclennan (Torridon), Mcleod (Scourie), McCallum (Durness), McInnes (Harris), McGillivray / McIntosh (Daviot & Dunlichity)

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 12 November 17 16:34 GMT (UK) »
Ross & Cromarty only dates officially from 1889, although before that time there was a Parliamentary Constituency of that name. Lewis was in Ross in 1841.

Skoosh.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 12 November 17 18:39 GMT (UK) »
I have a copy of Fullarton's Gazetteer of Scotland, published in 1842. It says, quite explicitly, "Lewis belongs to Ross-shire". It also says that Applecross is 'in the County of Ross'.

See also http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ROC/Gaz1868

In the Statistical Account of Scotland, the accounts of the parishes of Applecross, Barvas, Lochs and Stornoway all say that the parish is in, or belongs to, the County of Ross. As these accounts were written in the 1790s, it is reasonable to suppose that someone born in Lewis and living in Applecross on the mainland of Ross in 1841, when asked if he was born in the same county, would reply in the affirmative.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #32 on: Monday 13 November 17 09:05 GMT (UK) »
Forfarian - the other document was the copy of the actual 1841 census document. It's not simply the index from Family Search. It also corroborates with the marriage record and first daughter's birth record that indicates him being "of" the same place.
Does either of your original documents actually contain the word 'Of'? If it does, it might be significant, because quite often, if an official document (as opposed to an index) describes someone as 'of', it implies that they owned land, and if they owned land there are records which may reveal the person's parentage.

However I see from the transcription on FreeCEN of the 1841 that Norman was an agricultural labourer, which is not how you would expect someone owning land to earn their living. 

I am sorry if I seem to be banging on about a very small word, but it is a small word that can be very significant.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Agneshill

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Re: Norman Morrison b1790 Applecross/Gairloch - looking for parents/birth location
« Reply #33 on: Monday 13 November 17 11:34 GMT (UK) »

In an effort to get a definitive consensus of opinion on the interpretation of the various documents from which you are quoting, would you please scan and post them?
MacKenzie
MacLeod
Mathesons in U.S.
MacLeay

Offline whatkaileysaid

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Hi all - realized I left this off without a response. Will check back in more detail on the records regarding "of" or "at".

In the meantime, I've booked a trip back to Scotland to visit family in Edinburgh and then to go up to Ross & Cromarty. I've still been chipping away trying to pin down Norman(d)'s location(s). In order of listing, it has him as from "Torridon" on his wedding certificate, from "Kinlochewe" in his first child's birth record, and from "Port Lair" in a following birth record. Was it common to move this much?

I haven't been able to locate Port Lair in any online sources, but a relative indicated it was located in the Torridon mountains. Could anyone with a better knowledge of the area point me to where this is (or used to be)? Would love any maps or anything to help. The same family member indicated the family may have been pushed out of Port Lair to Applecross/Gairloch area because of the Clearances but am not clear on where that information came from or if there is any proof of this. As always, any information/ideas would be appreciated :)

Kailey
Morison (Isle of Lewis), Mclennan (Torridon), Mcleod (Scourie), McCallum (Durness), McInnes (Harris), McGillivray / McIntosh (Daviot & Dunlichity)

Offline Forfarian

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In order of listing, it has him as from "Torridon" on his wedding certificate, from "Kinlochewe" in his first child's birth record, and from "Port Lair" in a following birth record. Was it common to move this much?
Assuming that the marriage and baptism records are from the parish registers, they don't tell you where he was born, only where he was living at the time of the event being recorded.

As he was married before 1855, then the record is not a 'wedding certificate', it is an extract from the church registers of proclamation of banns. So I think you can reasonably infer that at the time of his marriage he was living in Torridon, especially if the same record gives a different place of residence for his wife. However Torridon is an area rather than a single place, and some people might regard Kinlochewe as being in the Torridon area.

If the baptism says Kinlochewe, this normally implies that at the time of the baptism he was living in Kinlochewe. It's not all that far from the head of Loch Torridon to Kinlochewe - about 10 miles or so.

Similarly if the next baptism says 'Port Lair', this normally implies that at the time of the baptism he was living at Port Lair, wherever it is.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith