Author Topic: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?  (Read 8209 times)

Offline Tiffany84

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #27 on: Monday 09 October 17 22:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks ''alpinecottage' although you have demonstrated that I have the wrong birth records for William Henry( 1883) and (Annie) 1885 it eliminates the records which I thought related to these children of Emily and Thomas.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 09 October 17 22:52 BST (UK) »
Also

WAITE, ANNIE  MATILDA       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 2

WAITE, SIDNEY  FREDERICK       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1886  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 2

WAITE, WILLIAM  HENRY       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1882  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 3 
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 09 October 17 23:43 BST (UK) »
Interesting that I can find no further trace of Matthew Henry Waite until his marriage to Nora Evans at Whitefield on 20 May 1914.   Their first child was named Tom (1915), and a daughter, Edith, was born in 1920.   

Google maps tells me Whitefield & Ringley are about 3 miles apart.

Do you have Matthew Henry Harris after 1911?

Matthew Henry Waites DoB from the 1939 and his death registration in 1970 was 15 Dec 1888.


MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 00:04 BST (UK) »
Also

WAITE, ANNIE  MATILDA       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 2
Baptism October 1884 at Itton,  Parents Samuel & Emily of Brook Cottages, Itton

WAITE, SIDNEY  FREDERICK       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1886  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 2
Baptism 22 Oct 1886 at Caldicot (born 29 Sep). Parents Samuel & Emily of Caldicot

WAITE, WILLIAM  HENRY       STONEHAM     
GRO Reference: 1882  D Quarter in CHEPSTOW  Volume 11A  Page 3
Baptism 7 Jan 1883 at Itton. Parents  Samuel & Emily of Itton
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.


Offline Tiffany84

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 17:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Jomot
Thanks so much you have certainly shed some light on my Ancestry!   As soon as I saw the name 'Waite' I had a 'lightbulb moment' going back to my childhood when my grandmother told me she was writing to someone called 'Waite' who was my Grandfather Harris's relative.  I also have some vague recollection of a mention of someone being in Canada but I cannot be sure. So, there must have been some awareness in the family that some of my Grandfather's  brothers and sisters were in fact only step brothers/sisters.  However, no-one has mentioned this to me ever,despite the fact that I was adult before my grandfather died and he knew of my interest in Family history. My own parents have similarly shown no awareness of the Waite connection.

I have checked out the birth records you quote for Annie Matilda Waite, and William Henry Waite and have found their births in Monmouthshire.  I was unaware of the existence of Walter Sidney Waite !1882) and wonder what happened to him subsequently?  I wonder if he died quite young because Emily who is then using the name Harris (post 1891) has a Sidney Harris in1897 and a Frederick Harris in1898. So, perhaps these two names were chosen because the Sidney Frederick Waite born in Monmouthshire was by then deceased ?
I note that there is a  William Henry Waite born in Chorlton Manchester in 1889 vol8c p744 which would seem to fit.  However, this suggests that Samuel Waite also came to Manchester at this time. Or, he had died and a pregnant Emily had come alone, and perhaps  around this time she met Thomas (James?) Harris? 

Using your Waite info I have established that Annie Matilda Waite married a John Henry White in 1906 in Prestolee a sub-district  of Ringley and on the outskirts of Outwood  where the family appear in 1911.   Incidentally, William Henry Waite is a witness to the wedding.  Annie's father is given as Samuel Waite (deceased).  I have looked briefly today but as yet I have not found his death. In tracing him he seems to be Samuel Fred Waite born around 1860 in Caldicot, Monmouthshire, where one of the children (Walter, Sidney) is Baptised.  Incidentally, where did you locate the baptisms of Annie Matilda, Sidney Frederick and William, Henry Waite, as I have not so far traced the Baptism records?  The parents of Samuel Fred are Eliza and Matthew, so a pattern is showing with chosen names.
I still have not established if Eliza, whom I have as born Ardwick area of Manchester around 1891 is a Waite or a Harris.  (do you have any idea?)
Now, I suspect I can stop looking for Thomas (or James) Harris in Monmouthshire.  It would appear that the connection is in Manchester somehow.  I now need to try to trace his Birth in Honiton and see if I can find him before the 1891 census. I hope this is less tricky now I have some of the jig-saw thanks to you!
You queried Matthew Henry's whereabouts and he does appear on the 1911 census.  By then Tom Harris is widowed and they are living in Outwood which is between Ringley and Whitefield where he later marries
Thanks again for all your help and if you have any further flashes of genius your input would be welcomed.
Thankyou!

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 18:11 BST (UK) »
Glad it was of help.

I think you've got a couple of names muddled up though, the child in 1882 was William Henry, not Walter Sidney.

Possibly the one you didn't know about was Sidney Frederick - born 1886, and he died in 1889 in Salford (recorded as Sydney Frederick).

The child born in 1889 was Matthew Henry, not William Henry.   

Per my earlier post, Eliza's birth is recorded as HARRIES:
HARRIES, ELIZA         STONEHAM   
GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL  Volume 08C  Page 721

My query about Matthew Henry was whether you have traced him as HARRIS anywhere after the 1911 census, but the answer seems to be no - because he reverted to Waite.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Tiffany84

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James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 22:30 BST (UK) »
I have always been told my Great grandfather was called Thomas Harris and was born in Honiton Devon about 1863.  I know my Great- grandmother was Emily Stoneham from Shirenewton.
On the 1891 census they are both in Manchester and he is shown as a Hatter.
However there is some dispute whether the entry is for  a James Harris or a Thomas Harris.  I have always been told his name is Thomas.  The other handwriting in the census entries on the same page seems to vary with the name Thomas being written in different ways.  Similarly the census compiler seems to complete letter J in different ways too.  Any advice?
I am trying to trace my Great-grandfather back to Honiton but now I am struggling as to whether I should be seeking James or Thomas as I have always been led to believe he was named

Online CaroleW

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Re: James or Thomas Harris? Handwriting query
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 22:39 BST (UK) »
Have you found a marriage for them.  Did he marry as Thomas or James

What name is he under in 1871 and 1881
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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline giggsycat

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