Author Topic: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?  (Read 8219 times)

Offline lizdb

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 09 October 17 16:12 BST (UK) »
But there is Selina (age 3 on 1861 census, with parents George and Eliza)

Birth
JUl/Aug/Sep 1857
Chepstow
ref 11a 2
Selina Stoneham mmn Painter
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 09 October 17 16:18 BST (UK) »
Ah! 1871 census
Shirenewton, Monmouthshire

Stonham, George  Head  Widowed  M  43  b Colne, Wiltshire (Calne?)
Stonham, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  9  b ?Newton, Monmouthshire
Stonham, Emma  Daughter  F  8  b ?Newton
Stonham, Matilda  Daughter  F  6  b ?Newton
Stonham, William  Son  M  5  b ?Newton

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V554-X6B


And an elusive birth!
June qtr 1863
Chepstow RD     vol 11a, page 5

Stoneham, Emma

(On FreeBMD, but not on GRO?)
Indexed on GRO as Stoncham!
MMN Painter.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 09 October 17 17:07 BST (UK) »
What I an finding strange is that I cant see a birth reg for the earlier children. Can see Thomas in 1895 and Edith in 1893, but not those before that.

Eliza is recorded as Harries:

HARRIES, ELIZA  mmn STONEHAM   
GRO Reference: 1891  M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL  Volume 08C  Page 721 
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Tiffany84

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 09 October 17 18:30 BST (UK) »
  Hi Janan, Thanks for the input but I still feel the 'James' is a bit of a red-herring.  I never heard my Great- Grandad referred to as anything but 'Tom Harris' by my Grandad. Also, he is shown on all census lists after the 1891 census as Thomas.  If you look carefully at the 1891 census it initially looks like James but then you can see it could be Thomas.  Thanks for your input anyway.  Much appreciated!


Offline Jomot

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 09 October 17 19:43 BST (UK) »
I'm not entirely understanding your logic re the James/Thomas thing.  He was always known as 'Harris' but you suspect his real name was something else, so why not his forename too?

I have to 100% agree that it says James.   Looking at other entries, including the surrounding pages, the T's are definitely formed differently to the letter J. 
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline groom

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 09 October 17 20:18 BST (UK) »
Not at all unusual for someone to be known by another first name. My grandmother was called Gertrude by everyone, I only found out at her funeral (and later when I started doing FH) that she was actually registered as Alice Gertrude.
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Offline groom

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #15 on: Monday 09 October 17 20:20 BST (UK) »
Possible birth for William

William Harries 1883 Monmouth mmn Calcom (bad transcription?)
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Offline Tiffany84

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #16 on: Monday 09 October 17 20:57 BST (UK) »
As I am new to RootsChat I am not yet sure how I reply to individual posts/queries linked to my thread.  So to everyone who has contributed to date Thanks so much. As I do not know how to link to specific comments in order to reply to each one, I have drawn together some further information.
Jomot suggests perhaps my Great grandfather was using a false Christian name too?  If this is the case I am truly at a dead-end as I have been told only that he was Tom Harris from Honiton Devon. That name and origin have been used consistently since the 1891 census (again on 1901 and 1911 census records.  It is always what my Grandfather believed too.
The background to my Great grandmother is slightly more clear, although I do feel she may have been 'Emma' rather than 'Emily' as she later became known .  The Birth of an 'Emma' Stoneham is shown in Chepstow 1883 Vol 11a p5 which seems to be her.  There is no trace of a marriage for either an 'Emma' or and 'Emily' either in Monmouth or Manchester.  There is the additional red-herring of the marriage between her sister Elizabeth and an Edwin Harris.

The children of the Tom Harris and Emily Stoneham are.....
William Henry 1883 born Monmouth.   There is a record for 1883 Bedwellty Monmouth Vol 11a p119 but I am not sure if this is 'my' family.
Annie (1885)  born Monmouth.  Again, there is a record of an 'Annie Harris' born 1886 in Newport Monmouthshire vol 11a p245.  Again I cannot be sure if this is the correct ancestor or not as mother's maiden name is not given.
Matthew Henry, born Ardwick Manchester.
Eliza, (Ardwick Manchester.)
Edith, ( Ardwick Manchester)
Tom, (Ardwick Manchester) who was the first of the baptised children.  He was baptised 1895 at Holy Trinity, Prestolee.   This is where all the following children were baptised. Prestolee, Outwood and Ringley as referred to in census documents and Birth and Baptism records are virtually synonymous.
Sidney, baptised 1897
Frederick, baptised 1898
Albion, baptised1899
Hector, baptised 1903
Ellis, baptised 1903
Robert and Eli, who were twins and who were born and died in 1903 were also baptised in 1903.

As I said in my original post all the clear-cut records seem to be post 1891 and also all the actual 'religious' involvement also seems to increase from 1895 onwards  I still have a lot of mystery surrounding this and it is causing me sleepless nights pondering it all.  Any help would be much appreciated!!  Who was my Great grandfather?  Tom Harris or not?
Thanks folks!


Offline osprey

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Re: Is Harris my geat-grandfather's real surname?
« Reply #17 on: Monday 09 October 17 21:24 BST (UK) »
A transcription of Shirenewton parish records can be accessed via DustyDocs

Baptisms to George, labourer, and Eliza Stoneham
Selina bp 2 Aug 1857
Charles bp 26 Feb 1860 - buried 18 Nov 1860 age 10 months
Elizabeth bp 9 mar 1862
Emma bp 14 June 1863
Matilda bp 9 April 1871
William bp 9 April 1871
Elizabeth noted as deceased on these 2 baptisms

Eliza Stoneham buried 28 Feb 1871 aged 37 after coroner's inquest

From the marriages
 4 May 1857 George Stoneham 33, labourer, father John, cordwainer & Eliza Painter, 23, father William, labourer, witnesses Morris & Maria Bryant

20 Dec 1881 Edwin Harris, labourer, no father noted & Elizabeth Stoneham, father George, labourer, witnesses Emily Stoneham ad Thomas Harris.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb