Brick Wall help needed please

[JennMorgon]

I am trying to find birth details or census returns prior to 1901 for Robert Henry James O'Neill.  His death certificate (1927), marriage certificate (1893)  and census returns for 1901 and 1911 all indicate a birth date of 1872.  The 1911 census suggests his birth place of Chatterton on Medlock but the 1901 census states Manchester.  Both census returns state his occupation is a loco engine packer.  The marriage certificate names his father as Robert Henry O'Neill a butcher who was deceased (1893).   His address on the wedding certificate states 1 Shepherds Street, West Gorton, Lancashire. I have tried searching on Find My Past and Ancestry but couldn't find either father or son prior to 1901 census.  I am quite new to family research so have no idea where to look next.  If anyone can find either man please let me know where to look as I have a subscription to both sites.
Many thanks
Jenn

[heywood]

Hello,
I would imagine that the birthplace in 1911 should be Chorlton on Medlock.

Heywood

[gortonboy]

cant find any of the records you have mentioned?  can you be more specific? who did he marry?  where is he exactly in 1901/1911? 

edit.....found him now.

[JennMorgon]

Chorlton on Medlock would make more sense.

[CaroleW]

I suspect he wasn't born as O'Neill.  There is no Robert Henry O'Neill death in the Manchester area between 1870 - 1893

[JennMorgon]

I thought the same Carole.  I did find a Robert O'Neil who died in West Derby in MQ 1888 aged 52.  It  a million miles away but still couldn't link him as father to Robert James Henry O'Neill.  It's more likely that another spelling of O'Neill was used.  I tried a few variations  O'Niel,  Oneil Oneel etc but went round in circles.  Hence my request for help !  The biggest clue must be the fact that the father was a butcher who lived in Chorlton on Medlock around 1872.
Jenn

[JennMorgon]

Is there any way of searching Chorlton on Medlock in 1871 (just before birth of Robert junior) to see what butchers were living there ?  I do have access to Find My Past and Ancestry .
Jenn

[CaroleW]

The biggest clue must be the fact that the father was a butcher who lived in Chorlton on Medlock around 1872.

Not necessarily.  That's only what he told the vicar which is not always the truth.  Many illegitimate children made up fathers names and occupations when they married so as to appear "respectable". 

It was not uncommon for these "fathers" details to be based on relatives and it's amazing how many were deceased by the time of the marriage.

[alpinecottage]

West Derby in near Liverpool, not (as one may assume) near Derby in Derbyshire.  It's about 30 miles from Manchester.