THOMAS READ AND WIFE ELIZABETH ? BETHNAL GREEN

[rosie99]

Wilks/Wilkes Street is in the Whitechapel area of London.  It is next to Bethnal Green.  I always use online maps when looking at London to see how close places are.

[cuffie81]

As Rosie says, Wilkes Street, Whitechapel is not far from Bethnal Green so it wouldn't be unusual for the family to move from Whitechapel to Bethnal Green (some in my own tree make the same move).

Wilkes Street, Whitechapel - Ordinance Survey maps 1893-1895
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=51.5209&lon=-0.0728&layers=163&b=1

Wilkes Street, Whitechapel - OpenStreetMap
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/157012200#map=18/51.51992/-0.07250


I've had a look for some of the children and found possible leads for George and Benjamin...

George Read - possible lead

GRO BMD references:

1844 Q4 Marriage - George Read & Harriet Eleanor Hulbert; Bethnal Green; 2; 15
1846 Q3 Birth - George Read (mmn: Hulbert); Bethnal Green; 02; 3
1848 Q4 Birth - Charles Read (mmn: Hulbert); Bethnal Green; 02; 12
1851 Q2 Birth - Harriot Elenor Read (mmn: Hulbert); Bethnal Green; 02; 5
1853 Q3 Birth - Thomas Joseph Read (mmn: Hulbert); Bethnal Green; 01c; 250
1859 Q3 Birth - Elizabeth Ann Read (mmn: Hulbert); Saint Luke Middlesex; 01b; 569

Marriage:

married: 02 Nov 1844; St James the Less, Bethnal Green
groom: George Read; fa; bach; weaver; 5 Elizabeth Street
bride: Harriet Eleanor Hulbert; fa; spin; -; 26 Wilmot Road
grooms father: Thomas Read; weaver
brides father: Joseph Hulbert; weaver
witnesses: Thomas Read (x), Eliza Hudwell?

Note Harriet's address, Wilmot Road. Coincidence?


Censuses:

1851 Paines Gardens, Bethnal Green
Ref HO107; Piece 1541; Folio 534; Page 23;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNJ-N4C

1861 Park Street, Bethnal Green
Ref RG09; Piece 256; Folio 1; Page 11;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2ML-8KL6

1871 Park Street, Bethnal Green
Ref RG10; Piece 489; Folio 52; Page 97;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJV-117

This George Read is reasonably consistent re. his age and birth place, c1820-c1821 Bethnal Green.


Benjamin Read - possible lead

GRO BMD references:

1860 Q1 Marriage - Benjamin Read & Emma Pugh; Islington; 01b; 238
1860 Q3 Birth - Alice Read (mmn: Pugh); Islington; 01b; 189
1862 Q1 Birth - Arthur John Read (mmn: Pugh); Islington; 01b; 248
1864 Q3 Birth - Sidney Pugh Read (mmn: Pugh); Clerkenwell; 01b; 593
1866 Q1 Birth - Edith Grace Read (mmn: Pugh); Clerkenwell; 01b; 656
1868 Q1 Birth - Stanley Read (mmn: Pugh); Clerkenwell; 01b; 698
1869 Q2 Birth - Ethelwyn Read (mmn: Pugh); Barnet; 03a; 138
1872 Q3 Birth - Agnes Emma Read (mmn: Pugh); Barnet; 03a; 169
1874 Q3 Birth - Herbert John Read (mmn: Pugh); Islington; 01b; 267


Marriage:

married: 20 Mar 1860; All Saints Church, Islington; lic?
groom: Benjamin Read; 27; bach; ? ?; All Saints
bride: Emma Pugh; 22; spin; -; ? ?
grooms father: Thomas Read; ? man?
brides father: John Pugh; merchant?
witnesses: John Pugh, George Dell, Mary Ann Pugh

The occupation of Benjamin's father is difficult to read, maybe someone can take look and offer their opinion.

Censuses:

1851 High Street, Saint Leonard Shoreditch
Ref HO107; Piece 1533; Folio 190; Page 7;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6H-KS2

1861 Pentonville Road, St Mary Islington
Ref RG09; Piece 133; Folio 89; Page 57;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-6JS6

1871 High Road Holly Villa, Finchley, Barnet
Ref RG10; Piece 1333; Folio 42; Page 76;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF64-XL5

1881 High Street, Clerkenwell, Holborn
Ref RG11; Piece 353; Folio 10; Page 14;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-SQWJ

1891 Lyncham Villas, Beversbrook Road, Islington
Ref RG12; Piece 143; Folio 30; Page 22;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3R97-L2M

The census records all appear to be the same Benjamin, born c1833-c1838 Bethnal Green, a draper, but his wife changes through the years so he may have been married multiple times. The children on the censuses do provide additional evidence it's the same Benjamin though.

[lahpun]

Debra, thank you for your input.  By providing me with the sample death record I would have been wasting money purchasing it then.
Re the marriage record of Charles Read and Annie   don't have it.  I just assumed that it would be similar to my own where only witnesses names are present not parents names.   I do have both Charles and Annie's death records and Charles' just says Thomas and Annie's just says John.  So no hope from that avenue.
Thanks again.

[lahpun]

Cuffie, thank you for all that information on Benjamin and Alfred's marriages and children.

Did you see my reply regarding all the information put together on what you ladies had supplied.  Would any one of you like to comment on the three marriages I sent and whether the children fit as one family or maybe two families.
Thanks
Lesley

[cuffie81]

Regarding whether the children baptised in Spitalfields and Bethnal Green are from one family or two I think we have enough evidence to say its one family...

Elizabeth Read who married Thomas Simpson...
- was born c1814 Spitalfields (ref 1851 census)
- had father named Thomas, a weaver, born c1789 Bethnal Green (ref 1861 census & marriage)
- had a sister named Ann, born c1822 Bethnal Green (ref 1861 census)
- was named as Elizabeth Ann on baptism of her son Thomas (ref bapt. 1844)

Only one baptism for an Elizabeth Read born c1814 with a father named Thomas, a weaver, can be found, which was 1814 Spitalfields. The child was named Elizabeth Ann and her mother was named Elizabeth.

Only one baptism for an Ann Read born c1822 Bethnal Green, with a father named Thomas, a weaver, can be found. Her mother was named Elizabeth.

Only one baptism for an George Read born c1820 Middlesex, with a father named Thomas, a weaver, can be found. His mother was named Elizabeth.

The 1841 census has parents Thomas, a weaver, and Elizabeth and children which match the Spitalfields baptism (George) and Bethnal Green baptisms (Ann, James, Jane, Charles, Benjamin & Alfred).

Only one Thomas Read, a weaver, born c1789 Bethnal Green, can be found in the 1851-1871 censuses.


If this is two families then they're doing a very good job hiding from us.


As for which marriage is correct (and it could be none of them), I think it's difficult to be sure. I've had a look through baptisms to parents named Thomas and Elizabeth and tried to tally them with census records but haven't been able to pin any of them down with any certainty. I'm gut feeling is that Elizabeth is likely Elizabeth Howard given the location of the marriage and the birth places Thomas and Elizabeth state on census records. Proving that is more difficult though.

[lahpun]

Hi Cuffie,
Thanks again for your information.   What did you think then of Thomas READ and Elizabeth Legassick.  They were married on 29 August 1822.  This information provided by a Legassick descendant.  All the researcher had was that:

Ann Snow married a William Legassick and had an Elizabeth Wilks Legassick, no dates of birth etc for the child.  William married Ann on 6 September 1801 in Soho St Anne.  They had - William, Elizabeth Wilks, George and Ann.  It was this Elizabeth who married a Thomas Read in St Martins in the Fields.   I have set my mind to this Elizabeth being the one I am looking for and also decided that Thomas and Elizabeth had George in 1821 before they married in 1822.   Comments please.

I really do hope that Elizabeth Wilks Legassick is the one I am searching for.  Shame that the death records do not show the parents names.

Another question is did Thomas and Elizabeth's son Charles know Ann/Annie Shelbourne in Bethnal Green before he took off to be a Mariner?  Were there any Shelbourne's living in Bethnal Green at the same time?  She would have had to been born circa 1833/34 with a father named John Shelbourne.   I don't know when Annie came to Australia, may have been the year of her marriage in 1858 or 1857.  Any help appreciated.

Thanks again.

TO ALL THE FRIENDS ON ROOTSCHAT WHO HAVE HELPED ME CONSIDERABLY WITH THIS RESEARCH I WISH YOU ALL A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND SAFE AND HAPPY NEW YEAR.

[rosie99]

As Thomas & Elizabeth Read had a son George in 1820 who was with them on census I think that you can rule out the marriage of Thomas Read/ Elizabeth Legassick

[Lily M]

I think you might be disappointed with the Legassicks.  They just don't sit well.   As Elizabeth Legassick's brother was a tailor, it fits nicely that she would be the Elizabeth and Thomas Read (a tailor) who had children baptised at St.Clement Danes (just down the road to St.Martin in the Fields)

Cuffie81 posted about son George's marriage in 1844    The witness Thomas Read signed with a cross, but both Elizabeth Legassick and her husband Thomas Read signed their names.

I could be wrong though.

ADDED  The Thomas Read cross on the marriage cert could have beeb George's brother

[lahpun]

To Rosie99 and Lily M,
Now I am at sixes and sevens with your comments.  As I said I was happy to accept Elizabeth Legassick but you both have "sort of" squashed that now.

How then can George born 1820 to a Thomas Read (weaver) and Elizabeth at Wilks/Wilkes Street not be Elizabeth Wilks Legassick?   

Can you tell me do birth records show the maiden name of the child?  Also can you tell me are you ladies on Rootschat from England and do you have access to records over there or are you using Ancestry.com?    To me, George is the only child born before the marriage of Thomas Read and Elizabeth Legassick. The rest are all born from 1822.

Do you actually see the marriage records of those marriages we have found which may fit our time line.

Thank you for all your help.
Lesley