Author Topic: Ellen / Helen Bain  (Read 13152 times)

Offline dowdstree

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 25 March 18 21:00 BST (UK) »
You just beat me to it Monica and can I just add that personally I have found this an interesting challenge.

James Smith Bain will not be easy to find especially if he used the surname of Smith  :'(

Alan, please do not judge Ellen too harshly. Back in those days if someone who was in a position of standing in a community or was your employer you dared not refuse to do as they demanded even if it meant becoming an unmarried mother for fear of losing your employment. That would have been even worse than being hauled before the Kirk. Even her father would not have been in a position to challenge what happened to her. Call me an old romantic if you like but I feel very sorry for her. Perhaps this ruined her chances of marriage. We will never know.

Dorrie
Small, County Antrim & Dundee
Dickson, County Down & Dundee
Madden, County Westmeath
Patrick, Fife
Easson, Fife
Leslie, Fife
Paterson, Fife

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 25 March 18 21:54 BST (UK) »
It may be relevant to note that illegitimacy was exceptionally high in Banffshire, even in the context of Scotland, where illegitimacy was higher than in most parts of Europe. C T Smout, in his book A Century of the Scottish People, reports that in 1861-65 16.6% (one in six) births in Banffshire were illegitimate, compared with 4.2% (fewer than one in twenty) in Ross-shire. The stigma associated with illegitimacy in Banffshire was much less than in some other parts, and families in the census with a string of grandchildren are not unusual.

I have in my tree a Banffshire-born relative who had ten children by eight different fathers, only one of whom she actually married (and who was the father of three of the children). So your Helen or Ellen or Nellie Bain is not especially unusual in having several illegitimate children.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Kirsty Edwards

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #47 on: Monday 26 March 18 15:18 BST (UK) »
The entry below Helen in the 1911 census. Is baby William a Bain?

In 1901, there is this entry at 41 Balvenie Street Mortlach:

Peter Bain 54 shoemaker b. Speymouth, Morayshire
Helen Bain 28 daughter, housekeeper b. glenrinnes, Banffshire
Elizabeth Bain 10 grandchild b. Mortlach, Banffshire
Jeanie Bain 7 grandchild b. Mortlach, Banffshire
James Smith 6 Months grandchild b. Mortlach, Banffshire

Details for this family show on page 5 of this doc www.brebner.com/uploads/bre13379.pdf

Monica


Back to 1901, and the the entry we have as above. Wondering whether Helen is also the mother to baby James Smith. His birth is registered as James Smith Bain in Mortlach 1900. Could he be the natural son of James Smith that Helen shows as living with in 1911?

Probably a stretch too far..but the 1 yr old Barbara Smith in the 1911 household entry was born and registered in 1909 as Barbara Helen...but can't see a further birth entry under Bain! Added: Barbara was illegitimate, but Helen Bain was not the mother.

Monica

Who was the Mother to Barbara? (if you know). There is one James Smith for Mortlach I took a punt at the certifcate and it appears to be someone else

Offline dowdstree

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #48 on: Monday 26 March 18 15:40 BST (UK) »
If you look back at my post #35 you will see that I found the birth for James Smith/Bain on SP.

Dorrie
Small, County Antrim & Dundee
Dickson, County Down & Dundee
Madden, County Westmeath
Patrick, Fife
Easson, Fife
Leslie, Fife
Paterson, Fife


Offline dowdstree

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #49 on: Monday 26 March 18 15:46 BST (UK) »
This is the birth record I was talking about
Small, County Antrim & Dundee
Dickson, County Down & Dundee
Madden, County Westmeath
Patrick, Fife
Easson, Fife
Leslie, Fife
Paterson, Fife

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #50 on: Monday 26 March 18 16:04 BST (UK) »
The illegitimate birth of Barbara Helen Smith, mother was a Janet Leslie.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Kirsty Edwards

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #51 on: Monday 26 March 18 17:03 BST (UK) »
This is the birth record I was talking about

Oh, so do you think Ellen/Hellen was also known as Nellie ?

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #52 on: Monday 26 March 18 17:06 BST (UK) »
This is the birth record I was talking about

Oh, so do you think Ellen/Hellen was also known as Nellie ?
Nellie is a common pet name for Helen, so yes.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Kirsty Edwards

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Re: Ellen / Helen Bain
« Reply #53 on: Monday 26 March 18 17:14 BST (UK) »
Nothing matching under the surname of Bain Monica so I tried Smith.

The census is for Glenrinnes, Aberlour.

William Tennant age 58 widower farmer employer born Aberlour
Maggie Tennant age  25 daughter
James Tennant  age  65 brother working on farm
Helen Cameron  age  9 months grandaughter
James Stewart   age 14 servant
James Smith     age  10 servant crossed out to read Boarder born Dufftown.

Was this the same William Tennant who was the father of baby William Tennant Bain? Looks very likely.

Dorrie

Dorrie, what year was this census? I'd say that it does look very likely. How could I confirm this though?