How can I be sure I have correct birth certificate?

[kimbo68]

Hello all,

I haven't posted in absolutely ages and am just getting back into my family tree having received my dna results.  I really need some help in clarifying how to tell if I have the correct birth certificate for my great grandmother or not?  Here is my problem:-

On marriage certificate her name is - GERTRUDE Caroline Smith married Thomas Staines 12.04.1903 Tottenham, Middlesex.
Aged 21 - this makes birth 1882
Father William Smith (still living) - Labourer
Residence 8 Brograve Road, Tottenham

On death certificate name - CAROLINE Staines
05.09.1944 Enfield, Middlesex
Aged 60 - makes birth 1884

Census 1911
CAROLINE Staines born Tottenham, Middlesex, married 8 years living in Enfield, Middlesex with husband Thomas Staines and children.
Aged 26 - makes birth 1885

I ordered the only GERTRUDE Caroline Smith birth in the Tottenham area around the year 1885 and these are the details from it:
5 Mar 1885
10 Howard Terrace, High Road
Gertrude Caroline
Girl
SIDNEY William Smith
Annie Mary Smith formerly Allwright
Solicitors Clerk
A M Smith, mother, 10 Howards Terrace, High Road, Tottenham
16 Apr 1885

Prior to receiving this certificate I had been told her parents were William Smith b. 1850 and Caroline Rumble b. 1852 which is completely different to the above.

Is it possible her father went from a solicitors clerk to a labourer.  He also has Sidney as a first name followed by William which is a possiblity as Gertrude or Caroline proves they dropped names.  How can I be sure which is correct?  I cannot see another birth for a Gertrude or Caroline that coinside with the dates and place or birth

Below are the census I found for Sidney William and Annie Mary, I cannot find them on any others after 1891

1881 Census
RG11/1384/24 p 42
40 West Green Rd
Sidney Smith Head 23 Solicitor's clerk b Brixton, Surrey
Annie Smith 23 wife

1891 Census
RG12/37/171 Hammersmith
Sydney W Smith Head 33 Private engraving agent law ?stationed b Brixton, London
Annie M Smith  wife
Sydney N Smith 10
Daisy M Smith 8
Gertrude C Smith 6
Mabel E Smith 3
Stanley Smith 1

Any help or input apprectiated
Thanks
Kim

[jc26red]

The gro now has a search facility which shows full names plus mothers maiden names.

I did a search for Gertrude Caroline Smith reg district Edmonton and only one came back
Jun 1885 mother’s maiden name Allwright.

[hanes teulu]

Have you checked the General Register office for Smith births, mother's maiden name Rumble in the area you are interested in?
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Free to register and search.

There are births in the Edmonton area but not a Gertrude/Caroline. What's the source of your Caroline Rumble as mother?

[HannahR]

Hello Kim,

I would say going from a solicitor's clerk to a labourer is very unlikely. Solicitor's clerk would have been a higher profession than labourer. I wouldn't get too hung up on her age range between 1882-1885 as the birth year always tended to be a bit fluid especially for women.

For a next step I would look for William Smith's death as I believe is should list his wife on the certificate? [Correct me if I'm wrong as I deal mostly with Scottish Records]. Also try working back from Gertrude Caroline Smith, see if you can find her on the 1901 Census.

There is a Gertrude A Smith living with parent William Smith, Shepherd, on the 1901 Census is Tottenham, Middlesex. This seems like a more likely match to the information you already have. The A could be a transcription error so you would need to look at the original image.

Hope this helps,
Hannah

[rosie99]

On marriage certificate her name is - GERTRUDE Caroline Smith married Thomas Staines 12.04.1903 Tottenham, Middlesex.
Aged 21 - this makes birth 1882
Father William Smith (still living) - Labourer
Residence 8 Brograve Road, Tottenham

On death certificate name - CAROLINE Staines
05.09.1944 Enfield, Middlesex
Aged 60 - makes birth 1884

You say that her father was still living when she married - did he witness the marriage 
A marriage certificate will not necessarily state that a father is deceased - that question is not one that would normally be asked.

Age at death is not reliable as is dependant on the informants knowledge, no proof of age would have been required.

[avm228]

Given that she died as Caroline Staines in 1944, I would suggest you look for her as Caroline Staines in the 1939 Register on Findmypast to get a precise birthdate which you can then compare with birth/baptism records for possible matches.

A search of the free index suggests her birth details may have been mistranscribed, so best do a simple search for the one and only Caroline Staines there is, and examine the underlying document for her details.

[avm228]

The witnesses to the 1903 marriage were Alfred George Smith and Louisa Smith.  Have they been traced - or indeed the bride’s address at marriage, 8 Brograve Rd?

[rosie99]

Could this be the family
RG13 / 1248 f110 p13
145, Welbourne Road, Tottenham

William Smith 51
Caroline 50
Alfred Geo 25
William Ed 19
Caroline 16
Frances L 13

Could Frances L be Louisa 

[heywood]

1901/ 1248/110/13


Caroline Smith 16yrs b Tottenham with parents William Smith who works in a Rubber Factory and Caroline Smith.
There are siblings including Alfred Geo. and Frances L.
Frances Louisa Smith b 1887 mmn Rumble.