Help needed dating a photograph of great-grandfather Robert Lay maybe

[Crumblie]

The buttons on the jacket in the first photo seem odd to me because they are on the wrong side, they are on the feminine side. For a male's jacket the buttons should be on the right hand side.

[deejayEn]

Thanks for all your help. I think you might be right that it is the same person -my grandad - in both photographs even though he looks very differnet to the way we knew him in the easrlier, vignette portrait.

I found out more about the photographer Russell's - I checked street directories on line and found that there two brothers who were photographers - William Russell and Charles Russell who had studios at 56 Camden High Street and in Tooting, first listed in 1925 and still there in 1930. My grandad lived just round the corner from the Camden address in the late 1920s so it make sense that he would go threre and have his portrait taken when he started work. The suit he is wearing must be his first suit which he bought for his first job at the age of 14 from Caledonian Market. It was secondhand and may well have been old-fashioned (for the time).

My grandad lived with his grandparents in Camden Town after his dad died in 1918. This photo belonged to his uncle who lived with him until 1927 when he emigrated to Australia, the other photo in uniform I got from his other uncle who also lived with him until 1925. This makes sense as to why they both had the photographs which were probably sent to them by their mum, my grandad's gran. Apparently my grandad and his dad did look alike which is why some people in my family were confused when I asked them and thought the vignette image was Robert Victor Lay Senior (they both had the same name).

[jim1]

The suit is very much up to date & what I would expect to see a young man wearing in the 1920's.
The buttons aren't on the wrong side what you see are 2 rows of decorative buttons the other probably 3 are as where you would expect to find them.

[Ruskie]

For what it’s worth, I don’t think these two photos are of the same person. Some observations:

I realise that the angles are different, so not easy to compare, but the lad in the first photo has a longer more rounded jaw and the army lad’s jaw looks smaller and chin a bit more pointed. I am not sure about this but think that there may be a shallow dimple in the army lad’s chin. Age wise I don’t think they are very different. The first lad could be around 18, similar for the army lad.

Ear shape appears slightly different - the top lad has a slightly protruding middle ‘edge bit’ whereas the army one’s ear shape is a bit rounder and “fleshier” looking. Lobes look similar though.

The chin line under the lip looks similar in both but that may be down to the lighting. (Sorry I don’t know correct terms for these facial features).

In addition, I think the mouth of the army lad is a different shape and curves up at the corners and his lips look thinner.

I thought 1920s for the first photo before I read any of the replies, due to the hairstyle, which was the first thing I noticed, and it just has a 20s vibe. He’s a good looking lad.

I am on iPad and unable to do a side by side comparison, so some of the above may be a bit off. 

[Gadget]

A bit late for you, Ruskie, as you're usually among the first to answer.  This thread started in April 2018 

[jim1]

The one on Flickr isn't early Edwardian either.

[Gadget]

I've just had a look, Jim!

I'm not sure who dated it but they're a few years out.

[deejayEn]

I just blew both photos up and studied them and they are both the same person, my grandad. I can see it now. They both have a scar on the lip, as someone pointed out, and they both have the same small lines under the eyes and the same curving of the eyebrows.

Also I have a photo of me at a similar age, I have the same hairstyle and look the same.

I think I just wanted to believe it was my great-grandfather as we don't have any photograhs of him. He died in 1918. I thought the plain back sugested the card was from circa 1902 but I think everything else says 1920s which does fit in with my grandad.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

[jim1]

There are more differences than similarities.
Ruskie pointed them out.
Ears different, shape of face different, mouth different.
One has a cleft chin the other doesn't.