James McConnell & Anne Murray , Comber

[Forestfan]

Hi Looby,

You may be interested to know that James KM may have been involved in another mining accident before the one that caused his death in 1893.  At least, on 24th Oct 1890 there was an incident involving a James McConnell, (how many were there I wonder with the same occupation - a brusher), at the same Jelli(e)ston mine at Dalmellington Ayr.  Apparently a shot went off before he had time to escape.  Indeed a dangerous business in which to be involved - finally costing him his life 3yrs later!

It is curious that on the JKM/AM marriage cert of 1860 that Annie states her father to be Hugh Murray, labourer, yet at Annie's death son Alexander states that it is David Murray, distiller. Surely Annie knew her own father's name in 1860!  Furthermore, Alexander didn't even appear to know his own grandmother's name either - Ann Fleming.  Annie's evidence must be taken as the truth though, as Hugh was also her brother's name, which she then used for her own son, who in turn used it for his son too. 

Incidentally, this may be new to to you - your Alexander was a witness to the marriage of his brother Hugh to Mary Robson in 1892.

Happy hunting,
Forestfan

[loobylooayr]

Hi Looby,

You may be interested to know that James KM may have been involved in another mining accident before the one that caused his death in 1893.  At least, on 24th Oct 1890 there was an incident involving a James McConnell, (how many were there I wonder with the same occupation - a brusher), at the same Jelli(e)ston mine at Dalmellington Ayr.  Apparently a shot went off before he had time to escape.  Indeed a dangerous business in which to be involved - finally costing him his life 3yrs later!

It is curious that on the JKM/AM marriage cert of 1860 that Annie states her father to be Hugh Murray, labourer, yet at Annie's death son Alexander states that it is David Murray, distiller. Surely Annie knew her own father's name in 1860!  Furthermore, Alexander didn't even appear to know his own grandmother's name either - Ann Fleming.  Annie's evidence must be taken as the truth though, as Hugh was also her brother's name, which she then used for her own son, who in turn used it for his son too. 

Incidentally, this may be new to to you - your Alexander was a witness to the marriage of his brother Hugh to Mary Robson in 1892.

Happy hunting,
Forestfan

Hi Forestfan,

Now, I didn't know about the first incident in 1890 at Jellieston ( I keep thinking of Yogi Bear  ) mine involving a James McConnell. Can I ask where you found note of this please? I don't see any reference to it on the Scottish Mining website.

Annie's father - Hugh or David? Yes, I agree - I think Annie's 1860 marriage registration would be the more reliable source. And with a brother called Hugh and a son , well, that sort of backs it up, doesn't it !
Alexander would not be the first or the last informant of death to make a mistake with a name or completely forget/not know a name. He gives "David" Murray the occupation of distiller ( which is nothing like labourer). However it is possible Annie's father was both !
Interestingly, Alexander, who had five sons (only three of whom who survived to adulthood) named them James (after his father), Isaac (after his father-in-law) Alexander (after himself), John ( his paternal grandfather) and David …..after no-one. David, my grandfather, was born in 1911 .

I didn't know that Alexander had been Hugh's witness at his wedding.
To be honest with you, it wasn't until I uncovered Hugh a few years ago (think it was when I found his signature on James McConnell's death registration) I found out he'd had a brother. Hugh was never mentioned by my late father or grandfather (to my knowledge). I was only ever aware from my grandfather that his father had several sisters.
At the time I discovered Hugh, I spoke to a (then) surviving cousin of my father - a man with a keen interest in family history & "stories". He was stunned when I told him his grandfather had a brother called Hugh, initially disputing my find and insisting Alexander had been the only son.

This made me wonder if there had been some sort of estrangement between the brothers or if Hugh moved away from Ayrshire. 
Thanks again for the information. If I uncover anything else relating to Annie I will let you know.

Looby 

[Forestfan]

Hi Looby,

The JKM 1890 mining accident is listed on the same website as the 1893 death i.e. UK Coalmining . . . . etc etc. - you'll need to refer to an earlier message!!  Just type in his name; 1893; and Scotland - you'll work it out!!  I am being cautious not mentioning the full name as the 'roots referee' as already shown me a yellow card, so to speak, for alleged impropriety!!  Perhaps I'll get a red for this?!?

Interestingly, the name 'Kirkland' you mentioned was also the name of the Registrar on the death cert of Annie M/M - had you seen that?  I wonder IF there's a connection there?!  Just a crazy thought!!

Also interesting is the appearance (for me) of a 'David' - sort of lends a wee bit of weight to the ancestor's existence, or was Alexander just fixated with the name, the son being born just 2yrs before the AM death. Family history questions, eh?!

And families in general too!  So much for the knowledge of the cousin with the "keen interest" - bet that put a smile on your face!

Hugh, a ploughman, married Mary Robson in 1892 at Keir, Dumfries, and resided in Ayrshire all his life until his death in 1916 at Glasgow Infirmary. So, he wasn't a million miles away!
His children were:
1.  John - born illegitimate as a Robson in 1891, but later assumed McConnell after the 1892 marriage of his parents. Emigrated to Australia 1912. Served in WW1. Raised a family. Died c1963
2.  James - my grandfather, 1893-1976, injured in WW1, moved to London, married 1917.
3.  Hugh - 1895-1972, emigrated to America c1920s, died in a house fire in Ohio.
4.  Margaret Walker - 1897-1984. No issue.
5.  Robert - born/died 1900.
6.  Robert - 1905-1963. No issue.

The much used 'Walker',above, is a Scottish name I've traced back to the 1630s in Angus.  I don't think that'll be repeated with the Irish lines though!!

Forestfan

[loobylooayr]

Thanks for the information, Forestfan.

My thoughts are that Hugh's death in 1916 explains why I and others in the family were not aware of him. He died when my grandfather was only 5 years old , so it seems he was , sadly just too long gone by the time the next generation came along in the 30s and 40s.
Hugh's younger brother Alexander survived him by 40 years 
My great grandfather died aged 86 in July of 1956. My father and aunt knew him well.

I'm puzzled as to any impropriety in any of your posts    Rootschat rules are fairly simple. You can't name anyone who is or potentially could be still alive. So James Kennedy McConnell and Annie McConnell nee. Murray are safe to name.  Heavens they died over one hundred years ago!
Please use the personal message system if you need to correspond in future. You can contact me direct through Rootschat by clicking on my profile and selecting personal message option.

Best wishes,

Looby