Fate of Everest Anseline after time on 'The Vernon'

[brothers-searcher]

There are a couple of websites that might be of interest with the Roman Catholic Orphanage for the Anseline children when they were placed in care and then subsequent possible places they may have been. (if you haven't seen them before)

http://www.parragirls.org.au/orphanage.php very interesting reading and I think this orphanage was on the current land the Parramatta Campus of Western Sydney University now sits. Part of the land was that used for the orphan school.

The other one is for Biloela Admissions http://nis.wikidot.com/biloela if you search on the page you will find Anseline entries.

Hope they are of interest
Lorraine

[Gold prospector]

Lorraine,

Thank you for those links and, also, I'm grateful for your offer to visit the Western Sydney Archives for me 

Regarding the Anseline children, I can confirm that Everest and Alfred were place on the 'Vernon' and Julia and Emily were placed at Biloela, when Mary went to gaol in 1876-7. Of the boys, I think that Alfred must have been old enough to be indentured out but Everest may have gone back to Mary in Parkes when she was let out of gaol, given his young age. The girls were subsequently indentured out to people in Sydney - Emily served her time in Sydney but Julia absconded (I recall getting that information off Ancestry, but will check).

However, I don't have anything further on Julia up until her 1883 marriage.

Do you have a sense as to which 'Thomas Nestor' she was married to (to the petty criminal or to the 24 year-old who died of TB in 1888)? 

Paul.

 

[brothers-searcher]

Paul,
Thomas NESTOR is a bit of a problem, to say the least.
I checked through all of the entries for Thomas NESTOR Gaol entries and there appears to be a run of dates from 1880 to 1888 in Darlinghurst (in one instance the Thomas Nestor mentioned is transferred to Parramatta Gaol - 1887). Most of the charges were for riotous behaviour, bad language and assault.
These are all confided to the greater Sydney area. Looking at the date of birth for the first child of Julia, James would have been conceived some time around September 1887, Thomas was not in gaol between June and November of 1887.
We could speculate that Julia, realising she was pregnant, went back to her mother (possible)

The Thomas NESTOR alias Thomas HYNES was charged in Bathurst and sentenced to Bathurst Gaol for receiving. - this in 1893.
I checked Trove last night and happened across an entry in 1927 for the death of Thomas John HYNES (also known as Tom NESTOR) 61 years old. (I have tagged these newspaper notices with the name) but it was in the Sydney Morning Herald for 17 Sep 1927. The death index shows his parents as Michael and Charlotte, 21570/1927, Newtown. There is a birth registration for Thomas J HINES father Michael; Mother Charlotte in Redfern - 3363/1866
This Thomas HYNES married Hannah A DILLON in 1888 in Newtown.


From this I would suggest that the Thomas HYNES alias Thomas NESTOR is not the Thomas NESTOR husband of Julia ANSELINE. (The marriage of Thomas and Julia shows his parents as Thomas NESTOR and Catherine Taylor NORTH. (I am inclined to think that this Thomas is the one who died in 1888 - the gaol entries in Darlinghurst and Parramatta stop in February of 1888 - but there is not enough evidence to prove it from the records found so far)

Lorraine

[Gold prospector]

Lorraine,

Reading your email makes me now wonder if I my theory about Thomas was a bit too simple...

I had concluded there were just 2 possible Thomases - one, with the long history of petty crime, culminating in the Bathurst imprisonment as Thomas Hynes (nee Nestor) in 1893 and the other, a Thomas Nestor (of who I'm not sure whether he had a criminal history or not), who died aged 24 of TB in Sydney Hospital in December 1888. On his Death Certificate (handwritten), it states he was a labourer, in hospital with phthisis for 1 month and 24 days, but (unfortunately) parents' names and occupations 'not stated'.

Incidentally, JM has already cautioned me about this problem of insufficient Death Certificate data! 

On Trove, there is a Funeral Notice on 1 September 1885, in the SMH, indicating  'The friends of Messrs Thomas and Edward and John Nestor are respectfully invited to attend the Funeral of their beloved father, the late Mr Thomas Nestor...etc' The deceased wife's name isn't mentioned but I assumed the younger Thomas mentioned there might be a good 'starter' for Julia's spouse (because the father was 'Thomas'). I recall seeing (I think on Ancestry) that John and Edward were also in trouble with the Law (did it run in the family!)....

However, whether it was the first one who died young in 1888 or the second one, the petty criminal who temporarily 'disappeared' after 1893, it makes sense that, for whatever reason, Julia headed off to Broken Hill to have her first child, James in 1888.

I can see that you prefer the first Thomas as her spouse (who died 1888)....I agree he may be a more plausible candidate than Thomas Hynes nee Nestor ...in fact, they both could well have been petty criminals  (the criminal 'career' of the first Thomas ending in 1887 because he died soon after). 

The only issue that still bothers me is the point that Debra (Dundee) made on this thread back in May and that is that there might have been only one Thomas Nestor who was a petty criminal and her suggestion was that the reason the charges stopped unexpectedly in 1888 was because, from that from that time on, he had assumed the alias 'Hynes'. What do you think?

Paul

[brothers-searcher]

Paul,
The only suggestion I can make there is that usually when someone had a known alias the previous charges and gaol time served is added to the alias's "rap sheet". Since there is only one charge on Thomas HYNES' alias Thomas NESTOR's page I doubt that he is the same person who racked up quite a few petty charges - the other Thomas NESTOR.

Lorraine

[Gold prospector]

Hi Lorraine,
Yes, you make a good case for Julia's husband being the Thomas Nestor who died of TB in 1888 and was also the petty criminal about whom there is much said on Trove....did you see the short article in Evening News, Monday 21 April, 1884, page 5 entitled 'A Juvenile Nestor'? (It makes slightly amusing reading...eg: 'he never works, and is daily and nightly companion of thieves and women of abandoned habits..." )
One would have to conclude that Edward and John were his brothers, as per the Funeral Notice for the father, 1885 and, as such, also, each had a petty criminal existence!
Paul.

[majm]

The Thomas NESTOR, aka HYNES was still alive and in Bathurst Gaol in 1893 when his photo was taken  as per the link at NSW Archives 

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/index_image/1998_a006_a00603_1307000105r

Born in Sydney, NSW circa 1867.

Sometimes those Crim sheets don't include all or any of the details of the previous convictions.

JM

[Gold prospector]

Mmmmm....thank you JM  - that it a great 1893 Bathurst Gaol mug shot of Thomas Hynes (nee Nestor) and, as per you comment, I see that it doesn't necessarily exclude him from being responsible for the petty criminal reports throughout the 1880's, for which the sentences were all served in Darlinghurst. (There was a Police Gazette Report, January, 1881 - Trove - describing Thomas Nestor as '...about 18 years old, 5 feet, 5 inches tall, slight build, freckled face...' which sounds a bit like the description in Bathurst, 1893).

As far as I can see, a Thomas Nestor was fined 3 pounds at Newtown Court for breaking some glassware in a Rockdale Pub (or 4 months, in default) and this was reported in the Evening News, November 13 1888 (Trove).

Thomas Nestor died of TB in Sydney Hospital, December 23, 1888 with duration of last illness being '1 month and 24 days'.

As Lorraine has pointed out, the births of Julia's (Julietta's) offspring were both registered in Broken Hill, NSW: James E Nestor in 1888 (Father: Thomas Nestor, Mother: Julietta), Registration number 37269; and John A Nestor in 1894 (Father: Nestor, Mother: Julietta), Registration number 7851. (I got the registration numbers off Ancestry).

The 1885 Sydney Funeral Notice referred to above connects Thomas with two brothers, Edward and John, but still doesn't distinguish which Thomas is which 

I think I'm going to have to pull my thinking cap down a bit harder!

Gold Prospector

[brothers-searcher]

Paul,
Going through the research about Thomas NESTOR and his family it is clear to me that Thomas (born 5 December 1863 and registered in 1864) is the son of Thomas NESTOR and Catherine KELLEHER.
He had three brothers - John born 1862 died 1867; Edward born 1865 died 1930; John Patrick born 1868 died 1926; there was a sister, Catherine who was born and died in 1873.
Thomas senior had an earlier marriage to Mary DALEY who died in 1859 - from which there were two daughters, Bridget born 1852 died 1931 and Mary born 1858 (no marriage or death yet).
I believe his second wife Catherine died in 1876. I can find no further marriage.

The daughter, Bridget married Edward LAWLER (mentioned in the funeral notice for Thomas senior)

The family lived in Elizabeth Street; Castlereagh Street and Crown Street Sydney and the marriages and baptisms are held in the St Mary's Cathedral Archives accessed on Film at Society of Australian Genealogists.

We could suppose that the boys, left without a mother young were a little wild. There are gaol entry records for Edward and John Patrick as well as Thomas - again petty crime - only John appears to have a gaol photograph.
Edward and John both married eventually - Edward 1910 and John 1921.

Lorraine