Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Love&Leaves]

Yes Boo - they were christened then in Christ Church Tynemouth when they were born.  Thanks for confirming - I wonder why they weren't baptised RC when born?

[River Tyne Lass]

I agree Sophie, that it is frustrating that no additional notes appeared in the baptism record for Pasquale.  I would not be at all surprised if the two Pasquales do turn out to be one and the same.  We just need to find something which might support this. 

Incidentally, I have found another newspaper article which may be in reference to him.  In the Shields Daily News dated Wednesday 9 May 1894, a 'Pasquiline Batista' (sic) was named in an article after being charged with brawling.  He was fined 2s 6d.  Brawling seems to have been quite common in North Shields at that time.  I have found that some of my own ancestors were also brawlers, women as well as men.  So glad we are living in much more civilised times now.

I recall now that battista related on another thread that Elizabeth's Step-Father was called Simmons.  So she must have decided to use his name as her maiden name at Pasquale's baptism.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794071.9

Also, I was wondering if you have ever seen this article.  I am guessing the person written about may be your ancestor?

Shields Daily Gazette - Wednesday, 9th April 1884:

'THE NEWCASTLE AUTHORITIES AND SUNDAY TRADING. - Before the Newcastle magistrates yesterday, Vincent Battista, an Italian, appeared in answer to a summons charging him with selling ice cream on the Quayside, on Sunday, the 30th of March.- The Mayor explained that it was the wish of the Bench that persons who sold refreshments ought not to be prosecuted.  It did seem hard that persons who sold refreshments on Sundays were prosecuted, while certain trades and the licensed victuallers were allowed to ply their vocations. - Supt.  Beattie said they had received instructions from the Watch Committee to prosecute in such cases.  The defendant was fined 1d, without costs.'

What an understanding Mayor.

[Love&Leaves]

Hey RTL - I had not seen the one about 'Pasqulinine' brawling!  Is this available online?  I do have two about Lily being caught brawling on the Fish Quay, so yes women did their fare share!  She doesn't look the sort to get on the wrong side of  .

I had however seen the one about Vincent and I think this is my GGGrandfather.  I think he was well known and respected so hopefully stood him in good favour!

I have another bit of interesting info - with all the WW1 commemorations I have been going through the stuff I have on those ancestors who served and thinking much about them.  I revisited the Tynemouth WW1 Memorial website again and re-read the info on there... there is a transcript from a couple of other newspaper memorials dedicated to John George and one of them is from his wife Emma Anderson.  So it confirms this is definitely our John George and that he was very likely fibbing about his father Giovanni on his marriage certificate (Johan, Customs House Officer!). But, the transcription is as follows....

[Love&Leaves]

..."mourned by his loving wife and CHILD and sister..." 

[River Tyne Lass]

Yes, as well as this being at one of our local libraries you can also view the article on British Newpaper Archives.  If you can access this put 'Batista' into the search and scroll down on page 2 of the finds.  Judging by the newspapers I can almost imagine that brawling must have been almost a hobby at that time.   

I have come across quite a few Battista articles at the library.  They certainly appeared to be a fearless lot.  There is one about Lily when she was a witness during an inquest  as I recall.  Lily had hit the chap over the head who went on to kill her friend.  I think I would have wanted to run away but Lily was evidently not afraid to take him on when he turned up in a threatening manner.  I can't remember which paper edition this was in but it would be easy to find out again - it appears in the North Shields inquest booklet at the library and is on microfilm. 

There are also a couple of articles regarding James in the workhouse.  James was apparently put on bread and water and told to break stones as a punishment which had been decided upon by the Guardians for a 'serious' case of misconduct against him and a female inmate.  James refused and was taken off to court and was sentenced to hard labour in prison.  As he was being led away James was said to have called out to the Workhouse Master "Don't forget, you are not finished with me .. I will smash your neck for you yet."  I wonder if he was allowed back in the workhouse after that?  This is quite a dramatic article and this appeared in the Shields Daily News on Wednesday 5 September 1923.  It would be great if I could find something regarding Giovanni which might help to solve this puzzling case but I haven't so far yet in the newspaper .. but I live in hope.

It is strange how there appears to be much on John George relating to the Great War and less on Vincent.  There is a very good website called 'Every One Remembered' - John George is on this but not Vincent.

  https://www.everyoneremembered.org/?fbclid=IwAR1HE32WCYHb8CRE2KJXB44fKeQA0wdDO8aCFTb7lCBu5_-8lMyQ_WU8rTY


What a shame for John George's child to have lost their Father!

[battista]

"Note: Elizabeth's maiden name was not given as Lawson.  Archive staff member agreed with me that it looks along the lines of possibly 'Simmons'."

"I will say that the name Simmons in connection to Elizabeth Lawson is definitely familiar to me"

"I recall now that battista related on another thread that Elizabeth's Step-Father was called Simmons.  So she must have decided to use his name as her maiden name at Pasquale's baptism."

Ah yes, Simmons. Elizabeth Lawson's mother's second husband was George Simmons. She took her step-father's last name. This was why I couldn't find anything about her family for a while.

Pasqualino's baptism provides definitive proof that Elizabeth Simmons is the same person as Elizabeth Lawson. I was pretty sure before, but this is direct proof.

[Love&Leaves]

Wow I would love to see these articles - particularly on James & Lily!  They give such an insight into these people.  I guess they had such a hard upbringing it made them hard.

I did have a subscription the the British Newspaper Archive but let it lapse in favour of one to Findmypast as their newspaper section is quite good.. but the ones you mention I've not come across in either.

Yes it is shame for John Georges child to have lost his father but it means there is another potential cousin if I can trace that line.

[Tickettyboo]

The newspapers on FindMyPast is the same database as those on the BNA (they are both part of the same company)


Boo

[Love&Leaves]

I did think that Boo - wonder why they aren't coming up for me?  I'm going to have another search.