Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[JenB]

When Elizabeth left  the Tynemouth workhouse the first time she went with 'W. Brabant'.  Could he have been the tailor mentioned?  Perhaps she went off to work for him.  She is recorded as having come back to Tynemouth from another workhouse.  I wonder if the William a tailor may have not been able to support her and the baby for whatever reason, such as death, or desertion.

I still think it is very coincidental that there were Tynemouth Workhouse Officers surname Brabant He was Boys Warden and she was Girls Industrial Trainer, according to a newspaper article of 1902

In the last workhouse record I found earlier this week for Elizabeth it records that she was taken out by a W. Brabant.

Are you positive it was a 'W'? The reason I ask is that in 1911 one of the officers at Tynemouth Workhouse was called Charles Lawrence Brabant, and his wife, also an officer, was Sarah Elizabeth Brabant. (Not that it's of any great significance to the search  )

[jon541]

With reference to River Tyne Lass's earlier post on the Elswick Cemetery burial plot, the graves register (only ... unfortunately the burial register isn't yet) is now freely viewable on FamilySearch which confirms that it's T86 and not J86.

Nicola Battista was buried there on April 20th 1900 aged 10 months at a cost of 3 shillings. There are no other Battistas listed in that grave space but Vincenzo Battista was buried in T85 aged 47 years on Jan 7th 1900 at a cost of 5 shillings.

Look up LDS film # 008426890 and page 708 (film page not document page)

[Love&Leaves]

Thanks Jon541 - I actually have a copy of the burial register from the T&W Archives but I didnt know the graves register was available on FamilySearch, will be useful.

[Love&Leaves]

Hi Jen - yes I agree that it is a coincidence re the name Brabant.. there are a few in this story! Its a lead I'm definitely trying to follow up.. I don't know anything of poor Elizabeth other than the workhouse entry and her baptism.

[River Tyne Lass]

Perhaps W Brabant may have been a relation of the Brabants?  I suppose another possibility is this may have been a false identity.  I wonder if anyone ever checked the credentials of those coming to workhouses to seek workers?  If not inmates would probably have been at risk of exploitation.  Please let us know Sophie if you discover who W Brabant may have been.

Regarding the lettering in the burial records - whoever wrote this entry wrote the 'T' in quite a fancified way with a hook like line to the left - which is why I thought it was a 'J'.

Sophie, do you now think that Pasqualino may not have married Marieta and that this may have been some other person? 

Do you know if  Marieta was buried in this area?  I wonder if that type of thing ever happened - that someone was buried without a death registration?  It seems strange that the GRO have no certificate.  If she was buried here I may be able to find her and then could check for a death notice/memoriams which may provide more clues.

When my shifts next permit me to get to the North Shields library I could check the Whitley Seaside Chronicle & Visitors Gazette to see if the 1911 incident with Pasquale was written up in there and to see if there are any more details.  This newspaper is not yet on-line. 

[JenB]

Secondly, I ordered John George and Emma Anderson's marriage cert from 1911... on this JG father's name is JOHAN BATTISTA and he is a CUSTOMS HOUSE OFFICER. 

I don't know anything much about this occupation, but do wonder if it's realistic that an ice-cream seller could become a custom house officer? It might perhaps be a case of John George wanting to impress and giving his father an occupation 'better' that the one he actually had 

[battista]

Secondly, I ordered John George and Emma Anderson's marriage cert from 1911... on this JG father's name is JOHAN BATTISTA and he is a CUSTOMS HOUSE OFFICER. 

I don't know anything much about this occupation, but do wonder if it's realistic that an ice-cream seller could become a custom house officer? It might perhaps be a case of John George wanting to impress and giving his father an occupation 'better' that the one he actually had 

Yea, I do think it's a bit odd.

[Love&Leaves]

Secondly, I ordered John George and Emma Anderson's marriage cert from 1911... on this JG father's name is JOHAN BATTISTA and he is a CUSTOMS HOUSE OFFICER. 

I don't know anything much about this occupation, but do wonder if it's realistic that an ice-cream seller could become a custom house officer? It might perhaps be a case of John George wanting to impress and giving his father an occupation 'better' that the one he actually had 

Yea, I do think it's a bit odd.

Agreed - it is very odd.. but also odd that you would have effectively three Battista families (Giovanni, Bernardo & Johan) in the same area at the same time, all with sons of the same name (i.e. John George & Pasqualino)! 

I wonder what qualification you'd need for Customs House Officer it does sound more middle class than working class.

I might see about gathering some more of the childrens marriage certificates to see what Giovanni's occupation/name is.

[Love&Leaves]

Perhaps W Brabant may have been a relation of the Brabants?  I suppose another possibility is this may have been a false identity.  I wonder if anyone ever checked the credentials of those coming to workhouses to seek workers?  If not inmates would probably have been at risk of exploitation.  Please let us know Sophie if you discover who W Brabant may have been.

Regarding the lettering in the burial records - whoever wrote this entry wrote the 'T' in quite a fancified way with a hook like line to the left - which is why I thought it was a 'J'.

Sophie, do you now think that Pasqualino may not have married Marieta and that this may have been some other person? 

Do you know if  Marieta was buried in this area?  I wonder if that type of thing ever happened - that someone was buried without a death registration?  It seems strange that the GRO have no certificate.  If she was buried here I may be able to find her and then could check for a death notice/memoriams which may provide more clues.

When my shifts next permit me to get to the North Shields library I could check the Whitley Seaside Chronicle & Visitors Gazette to see if the 1911 incident with Pasquale was written up in there and to see if there are any more details.  This newspaper is not yet on-line.

The article about Pasquair selling ice cream in Whitley Bay does make me query whether there was actually another Battista family in the area - anything is possible I guess.  There are just so many coincidences though with the rest of the info.  I am going to see if some of the other childrens marriage certificates turn anything up.  Would be great to see if we could get more detail about the Pasquair incident and the death of Maria Battista if you do get a chance RTL 

England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 gives only the following:-
Name:   Maria Battista
Gender:   Female
Death Date:   May 1916
Death Place:   Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
FHL Film Number:   1936955