Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Rena]

Have you already looked on the National Archive website?  There's too many for me to look through

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Battista&_p=1900%7C1800&_ps=60

Name: Batt, George - Battista, Antonio : War Office service records WO364/181:  1914-1920

Medal card of Battista, Antonio Corps: Northumberland Fusiliers Regiment No

R632526 BATTISTA  C   25/07/1931 NEWCASTLE: Register of Seamen and Shipping 1913-1972.

[Love&Leaves]

Rena - yes have exhausted most if not all online records.

WolfieSmith - fab find thank you!  No wonder they have never turned up before, the names are all over the place but I am thinking that is down to being lost in translation from Italian to English.  I have our Pasqualino on the 1911 census down in Kent (stationed with Navy) with his "second wife" so it does look like they are indeed two people.

There are still some big discrepancies as the Heads name is Branda Burnard, no mention of De Carlo.. plus on Pasquale/Marietta's 1906 marriage certificate she notes her father Bernardo De Carlo as being deceased and an agricultural labourer (making me think he lived/worked/died in Italy) 

Battista - this is still intriguing don't you think?  Another Battista streets away from our Battista's, in the same trade?

[WolfieSmith]

Branda Burnard  and his wife have been married for 14 years, so that could be Pasquales mother in law remarried. Names could be back to front as well, so he might be Burnard Branda.

Alan.

[River Tyne Lass]

Thanks Jen for supplying the 1911 article and the date and Sophie for confirming this as the article you came across.  This will be helpful for when I can next get to the libraries.  Even if it now seems this may be some other 'Pasqualino' perhaps this person may be of the same family line.

[Love&Leaves]

I have nipped back to the archives ..

Could this possibly be a good lead ... ?

Tynemouth Workhouse Admission
Wednesday October 9th 1912
3.30 p.m.
Battista, Elizabeth Ann
Religion EC
Age 24
'Spinster Mother
Father William a tailor'
Admitted from Tynemouth
No friends
Transferred from Bolton Union

&

Battista, John
age 5 mnths

Both discharged at 9.45 a.m.
January 30, 1913
On discharge Elizabeth was age 25 and John recorded as age 1.

Perhaps Battista, it might be worth checking to see if Bolton Workhouse records exist.  Could William be Giovanni?  Or could the record mean that baby John's father may have been called William and that he was a tailor.  It is a bit ambiguous.  I wonder why she was transferred from Bolton?  In the last workhouse record I found earlier this week for Elizabeth it records that she was taken out by a W. Brabant.

I have been in touch with the Bolton Archives and it is another dead end I'm afraid.. they have no discharge record for Elizabeth and John and there is no recorded birth for the baby either

On a positive, as I was able to give them the exact references for the volumes they did the look up for free.

RTL - the archivist at Bolton suggested that perhaps it could have been BOLDON workhouse?  Which was under the South Shields poor law union at that time in 1912 known as Harton Moor.  Do you think thats a possibility?

[River Tyne Lass]

The record did say Bolton.

However, it could be a possibility that the person who made the entry may have got mixed up, I suppose.

The next time my shifts permit me to get back to the archives I will check.  Off the top of my head I think Tyne and Wear Archives have the Harton (South Shields) workhouse records.  I am not sure about Boldon but I can try to find out.

I could not find a registration of baby John either.  I wonder what became of them both after they left the Tynemouth workhouse?  They seem to have disappeared as well.

http://www.margaret-hall-genealogy.com/page7.htm

Added: If you look on this local website on Tyne and Wear Archives User Guides then under paupers records you will see that they have the admissions for Harton and Sunderland Workhouses.  I will check both next time I am able to go back to the archives.

[JenB]

RTL - the archivist at Bolton suggested that perhaps it could have been BOLDON workhouse?  Which was under the South Shields poor law union at that time in 1912 known as Harton Moor.  Do you think thats a possibility?

The problem with that idea, if I have my facts straight, is that there wasn't a Boldon Union. Boldon was part of the South Shields Poor Law Union. So if she'd been transferred from there the record should say 'transferred from South Shields Union'. It couldn't say Boldon Union because there wasn't one 
RTL reports that the record clearly states Bolton Union. http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bolton/

[River Tyne Lass]

Jen is right in that there is no Boldon Union.

However, even though it does say Bolton Union I will check the South Shields and Sunderland Workhouses when I get a chance, just in case.  I think the South Shields workhouse was not all that far away from Boldon. 

If it was me after this look up I would be probably ask a RootsChatter in the Bolton area if they could do another look up of the admissions for that workhouse.  Elizabeth may have entered at any point after she  left the Tynemouth workhouse. I have had experience of others saying something is not there when it turns out to be otherwise.  It does seem strange that Elizabeth is recorded as being transferred from Bolton Union but yet you, Sophie, have been told there is no record.    If I do not find her at the South Shields or Sunderland workhouse in the next few weeks I would definitely consider asking for a second check at Bolton.  Hopefully, a RootsChatter in that area may be able to do it.

I have had a chance to check the Elswick Cemetery records and the newspapers today for Maria Battista death 1916.  Nothing found.  Of course she could have been buried elsewhere.  I have looked at the burial you found which seems to be on FamilySearch.  A look at their catalogue seems to suggest that this record was taken from one of 3 possible RC Church entries, the one at Stella, or St Andrew or St Mary both in Newcastle.  If no one beats me to it in getting to the archives or the Mormon family history centre I will check this when I can.

The 1911 EC newspapers are missing at Newcastle library so I have not been able to check out the 1911 story in this newspaper.  However, it may well be found in the Whitley Bay paper which I can check when at the North Shields library. 

Could that be Pasqualino on freebmd who is recorded as having death registered in March quarter 1951?

[Love&Leaves]

RTL I think it is definitely worth checking the South Shields records thank you.. but if nothing then yes, getting a second check would be a good idea.  Its so frustrating when something should be there!  I am following up the 'Brabant' name in the Bolton area... I guess it could make sense that she could have been taken out as a servant in 1904, taken to Bolton but then ended up in trouble somehow, pregnant and then a single mother back into the workhouse and then ultimately got transferred home to North Shields.  I think it's also intriguing that there doesn't appear to be much of a connection between Elizabeth and her sister Lily.  Perhaps this is because she moved/was sent away.  Lily is very clearly in most of her other siblings lives.. I have her with her older sister Georgina on the 1911 census - Georgina is visiting her in NS despite having moved to and married in London.  She also appears to be trying to help her brothers on and off throughout their lives.. but no mention ever of Elizabeth.. yet.

Yes that is our Pasqualino.. died Mar 1951 and the informant was his sister Lily.