Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[AntonyMMM]

I have been asked to comment on this (as a former registrar)....

There is no legal requirement for a father's details to be recorded (nor are they ever verified or checked) today, so I suspect there never has been. It is certainly possible for someone to ask that their father's details not be recorded on a marriage register entry, and something I had happen a few times whilst a registrar - usually when he had left the family long before and the person didn't want his details mentioned.

The current guidelines say:

"If the party shows any reluctance to give particulars for this column or column 8 the registrar need not press his enquiries, but should draw a line through the column to show that the information was not supplied"

[elliesboys]

Yes that's what it is a long line through.

[River Tyne Lass]

Many thanks for responding on this AntonyMMM.  I have never come across this issue before and this is very helpful as your post explains things really well.  I feel I have learned something new today.

[Tickettyboo]

Not seen the church register but I'd guess that its not in the same format as the civil marriage cert (as an Anglican register would be).
Unlike Anglican registers, RC marriage records were never intended to be a 'legal document' they were a solely a record of a religious ceremony. Therefore they not an exact facsimile of civil records.
It was possibly not even written at the same time as the marriage, but the church register entry may have been completed later and the priest perhaps recorded the father's name because he knew of the family. Though the witnesses etc are recorded the RC marriage registers are usually all in the same handwriting, so no requirement for any participant/witness to sign the church register. The bride and groom possibly never saw this entry or had any idea what was included in it.


Boo

[River Tyne Lass]

I remember that the entry at the Church was in the usual RC style and not like what would appear on a marriage certificate.  I suspect you are right Boo, in writing that the bride and groom may have never have got to see the actual Church entry or have known what was recorded from this.  I think as the family lived in North Shields they were probably well known at the Church having attended other ceremonies there.  Even without checking the baptism record for James' Father the priest may have known first hand that James Father was Giovanni/John.

I think this is quite useful information which has come about today through this issue.  This shows that if some people have Catholic ancestors who do not have their Father named on a marriage certificate they could still find out the name of the Father perhaps from the RC Church entry.   The priest would likely have chased up their baptism.   

[River Tyne Lass]

Just wondering elliesboys, were you able to uncover which of the Battista family visited on the Wellesley?

There is a very good book about the Wellesley at the library - I don't know whether you have seen this?

[elliesboys]

No! We think it might have been Dorothy and her mother. Some entries Just say Battista and some say Battista plus Playford.

[JenB]

No! We think it might have been Dorothy and her mother. Some entries Just say Battista and some say Battista plus Playford.

 Battista + Playford could also be interpreted as a Battista relative + his mother Dorothy Playford 

[elliesboys]

On a few though its says visitors  Mrs Battista and Mrs Playford