Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[River Tyne Lass]

Just on a lighter note - some updates I have come across recently (I have already let Sophie know):

C. Battista who achieved Military Medal has his photo in the Illustrated Chronicle on Monday October 22 1917.  Perhaps newcastle library might get around to publishing this photo at some point by next year.

Also, Giovanni's  Elizabeth and Antonio appear to have been baptised twice.  In volumes at North Shields library they are both recorded as having been baptised at St Peter North Shields.

Elizabeth on 17 October 1886 parents John & Elizabeth Ellen.

Antonio on 26 December 1880 parents Giovanni & Elizabeth Ellen.

On that court case I do think it was quite suspicious that the jury were urged to return a not guilty verdict because of 'no evidence'.  I think there was plenty of evidence to point to guilt.  Why the alias name?  Also, if he really thought he was a widower then why was 'bachelor' put down.  Also, I think it quite far fetched the idea that someone would not make further enquiries if told their estranged spouse had died and they wanted to marry again.

I think that jury must have had a great deal if respect for authority and just gone along with what they were told to do.  It is incredulous that any of them let alone all of them would have believed that.

[Tickettyboo]

On that court case I do think it was quite suspicious that the jury were urged to return a not guilty verdict because of 'no evidence'.  I think there was plenty of evidence to point to guilt.  Why the alias name?  Also, if he really thought he was a widower then why was 'bachelor' put down.  Also, I think it quite far fetched the idea that someone would not make further enquiries if told their estranged spouse had died and they wanted to marry again.

I think that jury must have had a great deal if respect for authority and just gone along with what they were told to do.  It is incredulous that any of them let alone all of them would have believed that.

As far as I know, in a court of law the burden of proof lies with the prosecution, hence the phrase 'innocent till proven guilty'.  I doubt the judge would have directed the jury lightly, but if the prosecution didn't present evidence to prove the case (which conformed to the legal rules) then the judge was correct.

Using an alias, saying he was a bachelor is not evidence that he knowingly committed bigamy. It may be an indication that could produce an opinion, but a court case is not a debate. The judge was saying that according to legal rules the prosecution hadn't presented anything to the court that could, legally, be considered evidence of proof.

Boo

[River Tyne Lass]

This might all totally come to nothing but Jen wrote of James being Thomas G Matthews by 1939.  (Page 46 Post 413)

I wonder if he might have stuck to this name, possibly?

There was a Thomas George Matthews who died in Durham East in the September quarter of 1983.  His date of birth given as 18 August 1898 - a year out to the day - but possibly still worth considering, perhaps?  Vol 1 page 1035.

[Tickettyboo]

That d.o.b.  matches the one JenB found in the free search of the 1939 register so this does look a quite likely death registration. Well spotted RTL!

Boo

[Love&Leaves]

Oooo think you've found it RTL! Brilliant.  His birth year is 1898 on all of the military stuff and his marriage cert to Lily.  Hoping to find some Matthews descendants soon that could shed light of what be came of him.  I may order the death certificate to see if it was a Lily or one of their children who registered the death.

Regarding the Bigamy charge - makes sense Boo, regarding how the jury didn't find him guilty.  There was nothing conclusive about the evidence

[River Tyne Lass]

Yes Boo and Sophie, thankfully, I agree this seems quite likely to be the death registration of James Battista.  If it is definitely him, it is good to see he had a good run of life - 83/84. 

Yes, please do keep us updated Sophie, if you do find any more evidence!  Hopefully, one day elliesboys might finally get to know where Grt Grandfather James was buried/cremated. 

[River Tyne Lass]

This is such a long thread now and it is hard to remember if this is something we have gone over before.  However, I am wondering if Giovanni might also have had an alias - William?

Daughter Elizabeth was taken out by a W.Brabant on 17 August 1904.  A William Brabant had married in Newcastle in June quarter 1904 to either Mary Ann McCann or Margaret Speers. In my post on page 13 post 115 when Elizabeth returns to the workhouse it was recorded that 'Father William a tailor'.  Giovanni was a tailor.

A William Brabant died 1927 in Newcastle upon Tyne aged 71 so birth year around 1846.  Apologies if we have already gone over all this and dismissed it - I just can't remember.

[elliesboys]

Blimey Well done on your find!! Can you imagine if I could finally find out where he was buried and a little more about him. I would love to see a picture.

[River Tyne Lass]

elliesboys, I was just thinking this very thing yesterday!  The thought came to me that as James seems to have died at quite a late date - there will likely be a good chance that someone out there will have a photo (or even many photos of him that they might be willing to share with you.)

I think with the death cert info it may not be too hard to find out where he was buried or cremated.  I am so happy for you that it does look likely to be him and that you will hopefully get closure finally soon on where he is.  

There will no doubt be a lot for you to catch up on regarding his history between the missing years og 1939-1983.  I do wish you all the very best with this!

Please do keep us updated.