Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[Love&Leaves]

Hi all

So pleased to catch up with everyone again and my continuing family saga 

Thank you so much to Boo, JenB and Jomot for looking into things again - I agree completely re the 1921 census, it is quite easy to confirm you have the right record if you have most of the info that should be on it.  I have found using the advanced name search and adding an address here is particularly useful.  I have found quite a few transcription errors that took a bit of fathoming out, for example my GGrandfather Antonio was transcribed as Andrew    I have spent a small fortune to date though as I have to know what the documents say!  You are all correct and James is in Tynemouth Union in 1921, along with two of his women and two of his children, both called John!

I have recently been in contact with one of James (or George Matthews) and Lily Macauley/Matthews grandchildren.  Her mother is one of their four children and she confirmed that all four of the children were taken into care after James left Lily  She has told me she has a photograph and I am very hopeful I will get to see it.  I have directed her to this thread and my Ancestry tree so she can discover all about the family.

I also came across a John Battista in a lodging house on Clive Street, North Shields in 1921 ran by the Rando's, family friends of the Battista's.  The entire Battista family was lodging with the Rando's in Bird Street, Tynemouth on the 1891 in fact, plus the Rando's are godparents to Pasqualino's first born Loreto.  His age is completely odd though for either Giovanni or Pasqualino and he is supposedly Portuguese (same as the man noted below him lol, see picture).  I don't however think this is Giovanni, although it isn't impossible, I think this is Pasqualino as I haven't been able to find him anywhere as yet.  He would have been in the Navy so I need to check his service record to see which ship he was on and see if he's there to rule him out.  I am wondering though if the military were recorded on the census as in 1911 given 1921 was so close to the end of the war. 

Finally a huge thank you (and congrats on marquessate status!) to RTL!  As always above and beyond, couldn't have gotten half as far through this mystery without you   

copyright image removed

[Love&Leaves]

I have just been thinking more on Giovanni.  I am still not convinced that he went back to Italy as hinted at in a workhouse entry recording of daughter Elizabeth.
At the start of this very long thread we were not aware that the Battistas would sometimes use alias names as we do now. 
Sorry, to rehash what we touched on at almost the start of this thread (around page 3/4) but I wonder if Giovanni may have used wife Anastasia's first husband's name to avoid detection after the children went into the workhouse? (I have not seen Anastasia or her Whelan children in the workhouse records).
Did he die in 1904 in Newcastle as Michael Whalen age 57 (Giovanni's age at that time).
Death notice showed that funeral was to be from his niece's home (Mrs Mallen) in Jarrow.
Could this person have been a niece of Anastasia through first marriage?
A Mary Ann Whalen married Henry Mallen in 1884 and they lived in Jarrow. 
Could this be why Anastasia's death notice records her as Whelan and the wife of late Michael and why there was crossings out in the burial register?  Perhaps Giovanni did not desert her?
It might be a long shot but then again it might be worth getting the death cert of this Michael perhaps to see where he died in Newcastle and who registered the death.
Sometimes a simple answer to things might be right under the nose and worth considering, perhaps?

Just checking back over my research on the Whalens as I don't think I responded to this last year, but did in fact order the death cert... it is still a possible lead on Giovanni...

Micheal Whalen Sr b.1859 d.1899 (aged 40) in Morpeth Asylum, first husband of Anastasia
Micheal Whalen Jr b.1895 d? but think he married ? Rowley in 1915

Micheal Whalen noted above by RTL b.1847 d.1904 death cert gives no additional info apart from that he died in Newcastle Workhouse, might be more info on who he was in the workhouse register?  I am looking into the Mallen connection but not a name I've come across

Going to search the Jarrow address and name on the 1921 now...

[Love&Leaves]

I have managed to get to the Archives today and have come across James Battista again in the workhouse records.
Another area is mentioned so I thought it might possibly be worth mentioning on this thread in case at a future date this might be a clue which could lead to Giovanni .. you never know.

Friday 28th Jan 1921
Admitted: James Battista
Age 22
Discharged Soldier
RC Religion
From Woolwich Workhouse
Nearest relative: Sister, Mrs Spence 3 Norfolk Street, North Shields

Discharged same day at 6.15 pm 'Refused to stay' recorded

Saturday 29th January 1921
Admitted: James Battista at 4 pm
Ex Soldier RC Religion
Nearest relative: Sister, L. Guthrey, 3 Norfolk Street

These two admittance entries are on same page with discrepancy with his sister's name.

I checked up to the cut off point of the end of January 1922 and it appears there was no sign of James having come out again up to that point.

I wonder if perhaps Sophie might have any idea what may have led him to Woolwich and the workhouse there?

Regarding the Woolwich workhouse... no specific link springs to mind however I know he was discharged from the Northumberland Fusiliers in Dec 1920 and there is a Royal Artillery Barracks streets away from the workhouse.  Looking into whether his regiment were there at all for any reason at this time.  Other than that his eldest sister Georgina and family lived in Wandsworth (same side of the river) and his eldest brother Pasqualino was based at Chatham in Kent, not that far away.

[River Tyne Lass]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4080310431

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/236346667/john-t-moralee

Hi Sophie,

Thanks for updating with all this updated info.  I am sure all our heads are spinning trying to guess what they were up to .. 
Just throwing another thought into the mix.
It has been suggested much earlier in the thread  that Elizabeth may have married a John T. Moralee under the surname alias of either Patterson or Jennings.
There were two John T. Moralees that married in Newcastle around the same time in 1917.
A John T. Moralee dies age 75 and is buried at Elswick in 1925.  Home address was Carliol Street.  I think I recall that the Battistas were linked with this street address in Newcastle.
The age isn't exactly right for Giovanni but it is close.  There was no death notice.
Nothing definite but I am just throwing this one on the table too in case this was Giovanni using an alias.  It could be nothing, perhaps this John might be a Father of John who married Elizabeth or it might be that they were all scheming together and this could be Giovanni using an alias.

[Love&Leaves]

Been doing a bit more research today 

Going to look into your idea about John Moralee RTL, as well as all other names Giovanni was known to have used over the next few weeks.... first though a bit on the Michael Whalen idea....

Searched Shakespeare Street Jarrow (address on Michael Whalen d.1904 burial register) on the 1921 and found no Battista's or Whalen's but did find Henry and Mary Ann Mallen (plus son Oswald).  Mary Ann was noted as Michael Whalen's niece on death notice at same address.  So family was still there 17 years later.  Also, found a Slavin family in the same street.  The Slavin name is connected to the Whelan's/Battista's as follows.... Giovanni's second wife Anastasia's daughter Anastasia Jr married a John Slavin.  Neither Anastasia nor John are noted in the Slavin family record so not sure what if any connection this family might have yet, but it's quite a coincidence 

[Love&Leaves]

Then a bit more about James... putting all my latest documents onto my tree and going through things in chronological order confirms that...

James was discharged from NF on 23 Dec 1920 due to a disability on his left hand.  I have another record which shows James (Battister) was investigated for a potential 'blightly wound' (self-inflicted) to his left hand.  It looks as if he was discharged as a result of this and it was found to be self inflicted as his medals were forfeited

He then entered Woolwich (Plumstead) workhouse 2 days later on Christmas Day.  I find things quite sad as previously mentioned his eldest sister Georgina lived in Wandsworth.  He did see action in France and was obviously so affected he injured himself to get home and his sister couldn't put him up for Christmas (. I think he must have been in a terrible state, especially when you consider he had not long lost two of his brothers in the conflict (Nov 1916 / Mar 1917) ((

On Dec 26th his son John George by Dorothy Playford was born in Tynemouth Union.

He was sent back to Newcastle as RTL discovered, on Jan 28th but discharged himself the same day.   He was noted as needing extra sustenance so again I think he must have been in a bad way.  He did however return the following day on Jan 29th and wasn't discharged again until a year later.  A few months later the 1921 census shows him as an inmate, along side Dorothy & John as well as Eva Clarkson and her son John, who was born third quarter of 1919.  I don't think this is James son after all as the newspaper report confirming he was Ena's child's father and that he was punished for not supporting the child was from 1923.  The report mentions that Ena had previously had two illegitimate children.  James William Clarkson (James is son) was born in Oct 1923.

I have him being transfered from the Wellesy Training Ship to a RN ship in 1915 aged 16 so I think he might have done some naval service too.  I also have him being court marshalled in Apr 1920 for Desertion & Abscence... obviously he paid a visit to Dorothy while away!

Also of note is that he married Dorothy in Apr 1922 but is in a common lodging house by July 1922. He must have been back in Tynemouth Union late 1922.

[Love&Leaves]

Oh so she might just be a lodger and no one of particular significance, but then again you never know, with all the twists and turns in this story.

Quite 

I have Lily's record and Ethel is noted as a visitor aged 28, married and born in Yarmouth, Norfolk.  She is a domestic servant, out of work.  It will be interesting to see if she is linked in anyway in time or just a friend.

On a side note, I have quite a few records where a person has recorded an employers business with address but also noted 'out of work'.  Perhaps they were just noting their last employment 

[JenB]

A John T. Moralee dies age 75 and is buried at Elswick in 1925.  Home address was Carliol Street.  I think I recall that the Battistas were linked with this street address in Newcastle.
The age isn't exactly right for Giovanni but it is close.  There was no death notice.
Nothing definite but I am just throwing this one on the table too in case this was Giovanni using an alias.  It could be nothing, perhaps this John might be a Father of John who married Elizabeth or it might be that they were all scheming together and this could be Giovanni using an alias.

I'm confident that the John T Moralee who died in 1925 aged 75 was indeed the father of the John Thomas Moralee who married Elizabeth Battista.

He was at 30 Carliol Street (probably a boarding house) in the 1925 electoral register, but previous to that appears to have been with John Thomas (junior) and Elizabeth at 2, Robin Hood Yard off Pilgrim Street in Newcastle.

A bit of fiddling with the address search on the 1921 census reveals they were also all there then, John Thomas junior aged 27 born Jarrow, Elizabeth aged 32 born North Shields (both indexed as Moralis).
John Thomas senior (indexed as Moraler) aged 72 born Whalton, Northumberland. There are a few other people indexed as Moraler also there, but you'd have to get the actual entry to sort out the relationships.

In 1911 John Thomas senior, born in Whalton, and John Thomas junior born in Jarrow are found at exactly the same address, 2 Robin Hood Yard.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMZ-4QR

Whalton was in Castle Ward registration district, and this looks like his birth, 4th q. 1850, Castle Ward 25, 264, John Moralee mmn Dixon. He is living at Whalton with his parents in the 1851 census.

I rest my case 

[River Tyne Lass]

Thanks Jen, so it looks like this is another who can be ruled out as an alias.  Very helpful too in tracing Elizabeth's movements.
Oh well, sometimes a step back can be a step forward in a way .. at least in the way of not going down further in a wrong direction.  The search goes on ..

.. Just to add a bit more from my recent time at the archives for anyone who might have an interest in following the Battista story..

James and Dorothy's son John George Playford (now deceased) has an entry for what looks like his birth  on Sunday 26 Dec 1920 at 9.55 a.m. 'Mother in Hospital (Dorothy)' recorded.
Dorothy had entered on Sat Nov 6th 1920 at 11 am age 22. Address 6 Union Stairs.

Dorothy's mother Dorothy goes in and out in entries but dies on 16 June 1921 at 12.50 pm as recorded on a 'discharge' entry.   Also recorded is that she had been a field worker and had been admitted on 19th Oct 1920

Re Ena Margaret Clarkson she was admitted on Feb 7th 1919 seemingly on her own at that point.  Nearest relative Wilfred Clarkson at (?) 3rd Street, Peterhead

Up to the cut off point at end of January 1922 James, Dorothy and Ena all appear to be still in the workhouse.