Missing death index and certificate [Brickwall]

[River Tyne Lass]

This is curious - John George Playford born 26 Dec 1920 in the workhouse but in article Dorothy says she first met James in 1921 and they married in 1922.
Might John George not be James son?  Or if he is, why does Dorothy say she first met James in 1921? Or might she have been mixed up about year she met James?

[Love&Leaves]

I have recently had some time to further my research and I have a few updates for the thread...

Firstly re James... I followed up the newspaper cutting RTL found (Post 30 June) with his descendants.  The evidence is indeed circumstantial, i.e. no fathers name on John George Playford's birth certificate and just knowledge of the marriage between James & Dorothy rather than of James having been around.  Time may reveal if he is indeed a Battista, if the family decide to do a DNA test but otherwise it will remain a mystery.  My personal feeling having researched James life and having seen photos of John George is that he is 

[Love&Leaves]

Secondly, I found the Elizabeth/John Moralee marriage in the Non Conformist church register on Family Search.  Looks like it took place in St Dominics, the same church as Elizabeth Moralee's funeral was held.

She is noted as Elizabeth Battista to John Thomas Moralee on 20 October 1917, a few months after the Elizabeth Patterson marriage in July 1917 at Newcastle Registry Office.  I also received the certificate and it does note her father as 'John Patterson, Tailor' which was indeed an occupation Giovanni often noted.  They are both noted as living at 98 Pilgrim Street, Newcastle which was possibly a false address, as at that time was the Liberal Club (Alderman Fenwick's House) but could also have been a lodging house.  I am hoping to find the actual St Dominic's register to see if there were any witnesses.

I am also still trying to link the Patterson name as I believe there has to be a reason she used this name - I have been researching her mothers family, of which there was only one full sibling an aunt called Jane Ann Lawson.  I did find a Jane Ann Lawson marrying a John Henry Patterson but having ordered that certificate there is nothing conclusive on it  . Still a few things to investigate though as one of the witnesses was Elizabeth Lawson.  I am also still researching the Moralees and the Patterson connection there.

On the subject of Elizabeth Lawson - I have also paid for an extensive search of the Bolton Fishpool Union Admissions/Discharges to follow up on why she ended up there.

I really think that Elizabeth will be the key to finding Giovanni as of all his children she is the only one 'unaccounted for' between 1904 and 1911 which is also the period between the last known reference to him (assuming he is W.Brabant who removed Elizabeth from Tynemouth Union in 1904) and the first of many references to him being deceased (daughter Lily's marriage certificate in 1918).

Unfortunately I am not further forward with any reason for her being in Bolton (apart from a possible connection to a Russi family living there from the same area of Italy which I am looking into) but it is clear whatever the reason she went there, she was struggling to survive 

The following entries for Elizabeth Lawson alias and baby son Jack were found:-

"Admissions
31st August 1912
Lawson Elizabeth servant, Church of England, born 1888 aged 24 years she was admitted as being sick and Destitute of the Bolton Parish, it stated that she remained in the workhouse until the                30th of September 1912 in fact it was the 9th of October when she and Jack left."  This is when they were transferred back to Tynemouth.  The discharge is shown at Fishpool on the same day the Admission is shown at Tynemouth as Elizabeth Battista.

"Discharges:
27th June 1912
Lawson Elizabeth came out on her own request
Lawson Jack came out on mother's request"

"Sunday 31st March 1912
Lawson Jack born in the house mother Elizabeth illegitimate of Great Bolton" (This was in the admissions despite Jack being born in the Workhouse as well as the birth being the birth register)

"Admissions
Friday 12th January 1912
Lawson Elizabeth servant born 1887 24 years sick, pregnant and destitute".

The search did not go back any further than 1st January 1912, so there is more to be found I suspect.  Frustratingly the original entry in January 1912 did not contain any reference to the North East or next of kin.  However, interestingly she must have had somewhere to go as she left with baby Jack for 2 months    I will try and get another search done to go further back at some point, or maybe even head there myself one day as I actually have other branches of my family tree from this area and was born in Lancs.

[Love&Leaves]

Finally a possible lead on Giovanni!

I came across some newspaper articles as attached.

Firstly John 'Bantista' betting in Market Place in North Shields in 1904... many of the children were born at the Rando's lodging house at 83 Clive Street and they all gravitated back to this area many times in their lives, so I think there is a strong possibility this is him.  Giovanni's possible last known address was Turpins Yard (just off Market Place I believe) in July 1902.

[Love&Leaves]

And another! A John Battista, Ice Cream Seller in Edinburgh 1905......

Edinburgh was very similar to Newcastle, with an established Italian immigrant population.  I joined Scotlands People and searched their records, finding a few Battista's but none that really matched in any obvious way.  They were all quite isolated records, i.e. I couldn't trace any of them.  The John Battista I did find on the 1911 census as a visitor to Dominic & Maria Angeluca, at a different address to the article and is noted as only 24!    A massive stretch but I am still not discounting it at this point.  I am still looking into Scotlands Battista's in the hope of finding a link.  I have heard of other stories of Italian families travelling between Newcastle and Edinburgh, or generally travelling to find work.

I followed up the charge reported in the article with the archives as they still hold the Justice of the Peace reports but it did not contain any further information sadly.

I will post this on the Edinburgh board and maybe someone will have some suggestions on where else I could look..., the Edinburgh Workhouse records would be a good option I think.

[JenB]

the last known reference to him (assuming he is W.Brabant who removed Elizabeth from Tynemouth Union in 1904

I'd suggest that this was in fact the Mr Brabant who was appointed by the Tynemouth Board of Guardians in 1902 to be 'boys warden' at the workhouse (Shields Daily News 7th March 1902) Could his initial have been misread? The 1911 census reveals his christian names to have been Charles Lawrence. The surname plus the fact that he worked at Tynemouth Workhouse is too much of a coincidence otherwise.

[River Tyne Lass]

That's marvellous that you have got all this research done Sophie.
This could be possible that Giovanni went to Scotland.
Don't give up hope, I still think that all might become clear one day.  Like you, I wonder if Elizabeth might lead this thread to the answer, eventually.
I would be interested to know who the witnesses would have been at her St Dominic RC wedding when she is using her real name.
Giovanni would have been quite old by then if he was still alive, but perhaps if he was, he might have been a witness.
I would like to go back to the archives and check this for you but it is still quite a faff at the moment what with the booking system and my shifts and the catalogue being down. 
Hopefully, when things improve I will try and go again.

Jen, I have checked that record more than once and there was no ambiguity with the letter.  It was definitely a W.
Perhaps though it could be that the person who wrote the entry mistakenly wrote a W. instead of a C or perhaps it was really a W. Brabant as written, who took Elizabeth out? 

Just adding to James' story there was an entry in the Workhouse Minutes relating to the article which appeared in the newspaper about him being punished.  This entry is at the North Shields local studies:

'Ena M. Clarkson (29)
The Clerk reported that an inmate named Ena M. Clarkson (29), who has previously had two illegitimate children, was in an advanced state of pregnancy and that the putative father of her child was an inmate named James Battista (23), a married man whose wife is living in North Shields.
Resolved:- "That, in accordance with the provisions of Article 35 of the Poor Law Institute Order, 1913, James Battista be punished as a refractory inmate by confinement in a separate room for 24 hours on a diet of bread and water, after which the Master arrange for this man to be employed on a task of stonebreaking.
Rev. S. Pearson - Mr Grant.'

[Love&Leaves]

the last known reference to him (assuming he is W.Brabant who removed Elizabeth from Tynemouth Union in 1904

I'd suggest that this was in fact the Mr Brabant who was appointed by the Tynemouth Board of Guardians in 1902 to be 'boys warden' at the workhouse (Shields Daily News 7th March 1902) Could his initial have been misread? The 1911 census reveals his christian names to have been Charles Lawrence. The surname plus the fact that he worked at Tynemouth Workhouse is too much of a coincidence otherwise.

Hi Jen,

It is of course a possibility, but I would have thought there might have been a reason noted for the master removing a young, female inmate?

I am very familiar with the Brabant's being in charge of the workhouse - Charles was the master and his wife the matron for a number of years.  There are lots of articles about their careers in the newspaper archive.

Giovanni was noted as 'William' on another of Elizabeth's workhouse records and I think there are obvious similarities between Brabant and Battista.

I do wonder about Giovanni being so brazen as to take his daughter out under the masters name, given he clearly did everything in his power to avoid supporting responsibility for his children.  But maybe he did it on a whim or under the influence! It may of been a sign of his desperation - Elizabeth was the youngest daughter and the only one who might have been susceptible to his charms and able to look after him.

[Love&Leaves]

Thanks RTL    It's been nice to work on things again!  I appreciate how difficult things are at the archives - fingers crossed things will relax in the near future.  I'd love to be able to get there myself, as well as to trawl through more of the workhouse records and guardians minutes in Newcastle and North Shields.  Giovanni must have had time in there as well, likely under an alias, so it would be very long search given all the possibilities.

Thanks for your input on James and Ena - I have been in brief contact with Ena Clarkson's descendants, but there is little interest.  I think it would be a case of a DNA match confirming the link. There is another article about him being in trouble for shouting at the Master not long after his punishment for being the father... I think the 'throwing hints' must have been about James loose morals lets say