When you can't quite prove two people are one and the same...

[Mart 'n' Al]

Malcolm, you have confirmed all my findings and concerns so far.  I am not happy about the 2-year discrepancy, but I know these things do happen.  Would you look into Edwin and Ann a bit deeper, together and separately, to see if you make the same discoveries as me?  I won't give you any clues!

I also wonder why Jane stayed Adamson, rather than becoming a Potter.  Any ideas?

Martin

[Malcolm33]

    Many thanks for the PM, all helps to understand what may have been going on.   I feel there is quite a bit to unearth as yet.    One big thing that keeps me wanting to discover more is that I am always trying to get a feeling for how they all lived in years gone by and especially the hardships they had to endure.

     Jane may have felt a bit excluded from the Potter family which could explain why she went down to Shildon to work as a live in servant.    I think Edwin must have been fairly well off judging by occupation 'Contractor' and then a 'Civil Engineer' in 1891.    North Ormesby Street Middlesborough is now very much industrial so I can only find No. 80 in Google Street View - https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5735628,-1.2237987,3a,75y,132.08h,89.7t,359.33r/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slXmOWCDnVB2YZyBL4g_ekQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlXmOWCDnVB2YZyBL4g_ekQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D133.63582%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 somewhat distant from No.52.

   21 West Terrace North Ormesby (1891) has gone now but judging by some of the older houses still standing down the street, it was a fairly wealthy area.

    So now to dig further,    Malcolm

[Malcolm33]

   Another day with some strange finds and a great newspaper report on North Sea Fishing by Edmond Jenkinson, father of John Adamson Jenkinson.

   My thoughts now after today's search.    Edwin Potter was at 7 Mount Pleasant Tudhoe, Spennymoor in 1861 which was no great distance from the Black Horse Inn where Anne Adamson was the landlord's daughter aged 20 and Jane g/dtr just aged 1 year.    Edwin married Anne Adamson in first quarter of 1863. 

   So big question is whether Edwin could be the father of Jane.   Don't think we'll be able to solve that.

    I have spent much time today trying to discover the connection between John Adamson Jenkinson and Jane - since George Leggett stayed with him in Hartlepool - but there are so many people who ended up with Adamson as a second name and one of these was Jane Adamson Edmond born first qtr of 1843 in Scarborough.

    In the News Report Edmond Jenkinson made a big outcry against Trawlers in 1883, who were fishing inshore and destroying the livelihood of local fishermen.   That could be why we find him as Master of a Clipper the Eliza Olive in 1861 although he clearly went back to fishing out of Filey or Scarborough - to be with his family.

    Adjacent column in the York Herald to the Fishing Investigation was about Stormy Weather and one ship was the Eva POTTER !!

    Think I'll call it a day just now,   All the best,   Malcolm

[Mart 'n' Al]

Malcolm, and anybody else interested, we seem to be mirroring our research, but bearing in mind the genealogical proof standard, can we be sure that Jane Adamson born to Ann Adamson is the same one who fathered 6 children with George Leggett.  I like to think that Edwin Potter was her father.

Jane's 1889 marriage certificate shows her father as Edward ADAMSON, Engineer.  This was completed by the registrar, who perhaps just assumed this if Jane gave her name as JANE ADAMSON, and the father's name as just EDWARD ADAMSWON.  I think the Edwin/Edward conflict is a clerical mistake.  BUT there are different family views on this.  The fact that the father's occupation is listed as ENGINEER convinces me that this is the right Jane, but it causes debates.

The absence of the Potters as witnesses also troubles me a bit, but perhaps they didn't approve of the age difference, 29 to 71.  Likewise the marriage taking place in Shields and not Middlesbrough.

I would also be interested in your research on the Potters' daughter, Lydia.  And her subsequent husband.  I won't say more yet.

Martin

[Mart 'n' Al]

   Another day with some strange finds and a great newspaper report on North Sea Fishing by Edmond Jenkinson, father of John Adamson Jenkinson.

 

For anyone else, this was dated 21st Dec 1883.  Thanks Malcolm.

Martin

[Malcolm33]

So far today, Martin I have concentrated on trying to pin down Henry Thompson, but there doesn't seem to be any death in 1890 we can link to him.    There was another Thompson family living right next door to Jane and her son Henry in 1891, but again can't find a connection.

Who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate in 1889?   That could help.

Sharon has been looking at Lydia and found Benjamin Rowntree etc.

However one thing that does disturb me is that Jane Adamson of South Shields gives her place of birth as Durham City and there is a registration in the first quarter of 1860 that could be her. 

Only way to check is to try and rule out Durham city as place of birth and that will mean finding an Adamson family in the City in 1861.

Cheers Malcolm

[Malcolm33]

  Well, Sharon has now found Henry and his wife Mary Thompson in the 1871 and 1881 census living in Tynemouth.    From that there are two possible deaths for Mary - last qtr of 1886 and first qtr of 1889, only that was the same qtr that he married Jane, so more likely to be 1886 for Mary.

    Some more questions that may help.   Did you ever find a will for Henry?   As a coal agent we think there would have been a bit of money.

     It does seem likely that Jane benefitted because we can see that she was granted the Licensee of the General Jackson in Hartlepool in February, 1899.    Have you looked into her application for the license?   Could tell us something.

     Looking at the 1901 and 1911 census again,  Jane called herself Thompson in 1901 but Leggett in 1911.    In the latter she doesn't just say born Durham, Durham, but born Durham City.   If this is true then she cannot be the Tudhoe Jane.

[Mart 'n' Al]

Malcolm, I have an announcement in the Shields Daily Gazette for the 28th of January 1891 announcing the death of Henry Thompson,

"At his residence 68 Morton Street South Shields on the 26th in Henry Thompson late of North Shields friends please accept this the only intimation those who intend to follow his remains to the Preston Cemetery will please meet the funeral on the arrival of the 230 ferry at North Shields on Thursday the 29th."

I also have a probate notice dated 27th of February 1891 stating his personal Estate was just under £42:

"Administration of the personal Estate of Henry Thompson late of 68 Morton Street South Shields in the county of Durham, Cole agent, who died 26th of January 1891 at 68 Morton Street was granted at Durham to Jane Thompson of 68 Morton Street widow the relict."

The Morton Street address corresponds with the marriage certificate.

I also have another document, listing the proprietors of the General Jackson from 1866 to 1909, and this shows Mrs J Leggett being the proprietor from 1900 to 1901.  I confess to not having a citation for this document!

My two concerns are the census where she appears as a servant, with an age discrepancy, and also the discrepancy between Tudhoe and Durham City.  High Street Hartlepool is on the Headland, quite close to the St Helens Place address listed on the 1901 census.

I confirm that my research showed that Lydia Potter married Benjamin Seebohm Rowntree of the chocolate firm. I also have evidence that Edwin and and Potter were Quakers, as were the Rowntree family.  I wonder if Jane's connections with the licensed trade, and her marriage to a much older man were sufficient grounds for Edwin and Ann Potter to disassociate themselves from Jane, or is it a different Jane?

Are my two concerns enough to make this whole piece of research unreliable?

16:20 update
I thought I should mention this one, the dob is totally wrong, but she was born in the city centre and was an inn keeper.

Forename    Surname    Age    Year Born    Relation    Birth Place                    Occupation       
Jane        Adamson        60        1821            Head        St Oswolds, Durham    Inn Keeper

I think we can rule her out, but noteworthy.

I also found two more Jane Adamsons, born about 1860 in New Field and West Rainton, but these are not Durham City any more than Tudhoe is.

You asked, "Who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate in March 1889?"  Robert Dunn and Sarah Breivis / Brewis, at Queen Street Methodist Chapel, S Shields.

Martin

[Malcolm33]

is it a different Jane?

I thought I should mention this one, the dob is totally wrong, but she was born in the city centre and was an inn keeper.

Forename    Surname    Age    Year Born    Relation    Birth Place                    Occupation       
Jane        Adamson        60        1821            Head        St Oswolds, Durham    Inn Keeper
I think we can rule her out, but noteworthy.

You asked, "Who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate in March 1889?"  Robert Dunn and Sarah Breivis / Brewis, at Queen Street Methodist Chapel, S Shields.

Martin

Hi Martin,

     Well I do now think it is a different Jane and I've spent much of the day trying to learn more and more about her.

     We can start here with this find:
Marriages Mar 1845   
Adamson  Robert    Newtle Tyne  25 313   
SMITH    Jane     Newcastle T.  25 313 

     Why they would have married in Newcastle is a bit of a mystery since both were born and living in Durham City.    I've found all the relevant census entries.

     It could be that Jane went to Jarrow/South Shields to work and established some connections there.    I still haven't pursued the Dunn and Brewis names, but they could be relevant in this search.

     Jane's father Thomas Smith was a Carpet Weaver born in Sedgefield Durham but living in Durham City from an early date since dtr Jane was born there -
Baptisms, Durham District
Record Number: 617912.0
Location: Durham City
Church: St. Margaret
Denomination: Anglican
29 Sep 1822 Jane Smith, of Framwellgate, daughter of Thomas (weaver) & Elizabeth Smith

       as was -

Baptisms, Durham District
Record Number: 618256.0
Location: Durham City
Church: St. Margaret
Denomination: Anglican
15 Apr 1827 Robert Henry Jefferson Adamson, of Crossgate, son of James (mason) & Margaret Adamson, private baptism 9 Apr 1825

        There is only one thing that is a bit out of synch. with this family and that is the age of their daughter Jane Adamson 5 years old in the 1861 census.     Robert Adamson was both a Mason and an Innkeeper so that latter occupation ran in the family for a long time.

        This could be her birth:
Births Sep 1856
Adamson  Jane     Durham  10a 228

        We can find Jane with sons Robert James and William  still in Durham City in 1881 which is the same census you refer to above and the gateway to this line of search.    But no sign of Jane at this time.    She will be there somewhere, probably a mis-transcription of her name.

        As for George and his two ladies, well it does look very much like he was seeing both at much the same time.    Mary in Scarborough always described herself as married even years later, and Jane up in Hartlepool did go back to the Thompson surname in 1901 but reverted to Leggett in 1911.   That is a small indication, but worth keeping in mind.

         Hope this helps a bit,   Malcolm