Isabella Anderson of Gamrie. A very complicated lady!

[Forfarian]

she has a christian name that can be shortened in a  number of ways, Bella, Issa, Lalla ....

.... Tib, Tibby, Tibbie, Bell, Beldie, Isa, Izzie  ....

[Crumblie]

It is enough to make you want to bang your head against a real brickwall.

[Liviani]

...I believe he had a child with Helen Howat.  The child was Sarah Anderson b.c. 1837.  Francis Anderson: I think this may be Sarah Anderson's father but I cannot find a record of any marriage between him and Helen Howat, who I believe to be Sarah's mother.    There seems to be a link to the Massie family in Gamrie.  Francis Anderson married Isabel Massie in 1824.
On Sarah Anderson's marriage cert it states Fa: Francis Anderson - farm servant (deceased) which would fit with his date of death.   The cert also states Mo: Helen Anderson (nee Howat) Struggling to work this out.
However, Sarah's residence in 1851 is 1851 • Gamrie, Banffshire, Scotland
...The Massie/ Anderson/ Bruce families in this area do seem to be closely entwined!  If anyone can shed any light that would be fantastic.  Many thanks

Hello, welcome to Rootschat!

My 3x great-grandfather is the Francis mentioned (though, whether or not he is the biological father of my ancestors is something I have pondered for some time for reasons outlined in previous replies).
His first wife as you say was Isabel Massie. Isabel Massie dies sometime between 1842 and 1851. Francis and Isobel Massie had a child named John Anderson in 1842. Isobel Massie is possibly the Isobel born 1794 in Gardenstown to James Massie and Elizabeth Robertson. Witnesses George Robertson and James Gill of Gardenstown. With Isobel Massie still being alive at the time of Sarah Anderson's birth, it gives me doubts as to the two Francis' being one and the same. Of course it is not impossible, he may have been a naughty boy.

On Isabel Massie and Francis Anderson's OPR marriage it states that Francis was of Haddoleys and Isabel was of Cushnie. Witnesses were James Massie and John Bruce "witnesses in Logie".

Francis goes on to marry my 3x great-grandmother Isabella Anderson in December 1859. Francis is indexed as "Fras Anderson" here. There are no names of his previous spouse(s) on this MC unfortunately. His condition is noted as being a "widower" though.

I also can't find a marriage record between a Francis Anderson and a Helen Howat.
Is your Helen Howat the one born 1804 to William Howat and Jean Walker in Gamrie and Macduff?

I cannot find a death record for a Helen (or Ellen) Anderson other name Howat in Scotland at all. (See later on in this reply)

In the 1841 Census there is a Sarah Howatt aged approx 30 (ages were rounded in 1841) living at Cushnie, Gamrie. Cushnie is interesting as that's where Isabel Massie was residing in 1824 at the time of her marriage to Francis. Sarah could be a relation of your Helen. Also in this houshold are two Anderson girls;

Margaret Anderson aged 12, born Gamrie and Jane Anderson aged 8, born Gamrie. I am not sure if these Anderson girls are connected to my lot. There are two possible OPR baptisms for Margaret Anderson;

One born 1830 to a John Anderson and Mary Pirie in Gamrie and the other is ("my lot") born 1832 to Francis Anderson and Isabel Massie in Gamrie. Not sure on Jane, have tried searching for varients i.e. Jean etc but can't get a good match for who she might be.

Other surnames in this household are Wilson, Alexander and Legg.

I also noticed a possible match for your Sarah Anderson in the 1841 census in Gardestown, Gamrie.

She is aged 4 and the head of the house is a James Bruce aged 40 and a shoemaker. He is living a woman named Helen Bruce. I then found the following marriage record on SP;

BRUCE
JAMES
HELEN HOWAT/
29/07/1838
155/
30 599
Gamrie and Macduff

I believe this is your Helen Howat. She married James Bruce in 1838 at Gamrie and Macduff. Helen was living in Findon.

There is the following death certificate available on Scotland's People thatis a good candidate for her, also listed under Bruce.

HOWAT
HELEN
70
1878
147/ 157
Banff

My Francis Anderson's mother was a Christian Bruce. She lived to a great old age (approx 97) and was still alive in the 1841 and 1851 census, the latter named her place of birth as Aberdour, Aberdeenshire. This borders the parish of Gamrie and Macduff in Banffshire.

If indeed Sarah Anderson's father was a Franci(e)s Anderson, there is another possible candidate;

There was a Francis Anderson b.1806 to a James Anderson and Ann Pringle. This Francis was illegtimate; "Natural son. Mother in Northfield. Wit: Jas. Wilson & John Alexander both in Protstown"


Unsure if these are connected to mine at this stage.

But to sum up, I don't think your Helen Howat ever married a Francis Anderson and the information Sarah had was wrong.

If her biological father is indeed a Francis Anderson, it's possible he was the one born 1806 to James Anderson and Ann Pringle. I have seen the Pringle name before during my time researching my Banffshire Andersons, but I cannot place it at present.

It is enough to make you want to bang your head against a real brickwall.

Ohh yes, I have felt like this many many times. It's been a lot of work and I needed a lot of help from people here, which I'm grateful for. She's still a mystery! I've yet to find Isabella's DC. All I know is that she died sometime after her daughter Eliza's marriage in May 1884.

[LauraMid]

The attached marriage certificate of Jane Anderson and James Farquhar in 1861, have the parents of Jane as Francis Anderson and Helen Howat!

[Liviani]

The attached marriage certificate of Jane Anderson and James Farquhar in 1861, have the parents of Jane as Francis Anderson and Helen Howat!

Hopefully, this relates to Kitty67's Francis Anderson. It certainly looks like a good candidate. If it is them it definitely reinforces that my Francis' and Kitty67's Francis Anderson are two different people. My Francis died in May 1863, and the marriage record you posted lists this Francis as deceased in 1861.

[Liviani]

This thread has inspired me to go back to finding Isabella's death certificate, and I appear to have found it!

I searched for females who died after 1884 ^{(date of daughter, Elizabeth's marriage)}, surname Anderson, mother's maiden name; Ferrier and one popped up for the correct age. However, the name is Elizabeth Anderson. I took a chance on it, regardless. Details as follows;

Elizabeth Anderson
Widow of Francis Anderson, Farmer (correct)
Age: 60
Date and place of death: 13th April 1887, Watson Street, Banchory, Banchory-Ternan
Parents: John Anderson (sheep farmer) and Elizabeth Ferrier - both deceased
Informant: George Anderson (son) residing at 15 Yeats Lane, Aberdeen

Her father's first name is incorrect. Her father was a Robert Anderson, which corroborates with her marriage certificate of 1859 to Francis Anderson, where she names her parents as Robert Anderson and Elizabeth Ferrier. Additionally, there is an OPR baptism in 1826 for Isabel Anderson to Robert Anderson and Elizabeth Ferrier in Gamrie.

Her son, George, the informant, will have never met his grandfather Robert. He is probably the Robert Anderson, aged 30, who died in 1835 at Snubs of Troup, Gamrie. So this would likely account for that error.

Rosinish you were correct with your suggestion of Elizabeth. I was just looking in the wrong area. I don't know if the addition of the mother's maiden name on the index is recent for this period, but I don't recall seeing this before when searching for Isabella/Elizabeth's death.

She did have a sister named Elizabeth Anderson; however, she was born in 1834. I am confident that this record refers to Isabel/Isabella Anderson due to the husband's name, the name of the mother and the age.

It's amazing how much difference the addition of the mother's maiden name in the index makes in finding the death of someone with a common name.

[Rosinish]

"Rosinish you were correct with your suggestion of Elizabeth. I was just looking in the wrong area. I don't know if the addition of the mother's maiden name on the index is recent for this period, but I don't recall seeing this before when searching for Isabella/Elizabeth's death.

It's amazing how much difference the addition of the mother's maiden name in the index makes in finding the death of someone with a common name."

Yes the addition of the mms on the indexes is quite recent although there were some recorded previously & I had always wondered why not them all.

Glad you've tied up that loose end, a great feeling! 

I can also say I did find my chap too in 1923 (no mms) but he was recorded with a middle name which isn't on his 1873 BC, MC or census'  Not the 1st time I've come across an additional middle name!

I believe, out of all the people I know who have been doing the same line, I'm the only one to have his death details on my 10th attempt! 

I had such a large window for his death 1911 - 1935 which didn't help.

Annie

[Forfarian]

Yes the addition of the mms on the indexes is quite recent although there were some recorded previously & I had always wondered why not them all.

Because until 1974 the original printed index books did not include this information.

First of all the printed books were digitised, which must in itself have been a big undertaking, to create the DIGROS (something like Digital Imaging of the General Registers of Scotland) system that was available in-house.

Then, with the advent of Scotland's People online, the information in DIGROS was transferred to form the index to that.

SP has been gradually adding mothers' maiden surnames for years, but this work must have got a great boost from the pandemic and lockdown, because it's obviously a task that staff could do at home. I hope that the momentum will not be lost once lockdown comes to an end!

[Rosinish]

Thanks for the info. Forfarian,

I wasn't aware the indexed ones I'd previously come across were a work in progress but ditto...
"I hope that the momentum will not be lost once lockdown comes to an end!"

It will save us a lot of £s especially with scenarios like mine, when they died sometime after the 1911 census & a remarriage of the widow in 1935 having nothing else to narrow it down.

Fingers crossed 

Annie