Advice please on (cheap) research approach to join the dots (or not)

[Mike Morrell (NL)]

I have a friend in the village I grew in up in whose mother (now dead) always maintained that she was related to my family via my friend's grandmother and mine (mine b. 1888, hers b. 1883). They both had the common maiden name "Phillips", they both lived in my home village and their 'roots'  both originated in Pembrey in South Wales. My 'Phillips" ancestor  moved from Pembrey to my home  village in about 1861. Hers moved some 20 years later.

Recently, my friend gave me details of her GM's birth and death dates, marriage, etc. Seeing this as a challenge, I tried to see whether I could connect some dots (siblings/1st cousins/2nd cousins?). So far. it's proved much more difficult than I'd imagined. Perhaps there is no connection though I still think it's probable.

We both have an ancestor "William" but (according to census info) hers was born in 1847 and mine in 1853.  I've traced her family back to a Thomas Phillips (b 1817) and mine to a James Phillips (b 1829).

In Pembrey at that time there are a whole lot of "Phillips"'s with similar forenames. I don't want to spend much money on GRO certificates so my plan at the moment is to trawl the parish registers to see if I can connect "William" with ""James".

There may be trees that have already established links but I've not found any on Ancestry.

Does this sound like a good approach? Any tips on a better approach? Resources I've not thought of?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[goldie61]

I guess James and Thomas could be brothers/cousins etc?

Have you looked for any wills?
https://www.library.wales/discover/nlw-resources/wills/

Luckily they are viewable online.
Lots of pages for Phillips, but you might strike lucky - time consuming, but free! 
I only got as far as putting in 'Phillips' - you may be able to cut down the number by putting in other criteria - date , place etc.

[CaroleW]

As all persons are deceased - why not post what personal details/info you have and see if anybody here can help

[Mike Morrell (NL)]

I'm trying to figure out whether and if so how two families are related and I've gotten myself into a right mess! I've probably got people/families mixed up. Anyway this is what I've sketched out so far based on 'best fit' census data and baptisms (which often conflict!). Any help in seeing the wood for the trees, much appreciated.

My GGF was John Phillips b 1855 in Pembrey, married to Mary Williams b 1857 who lived in my home village of Waunarlwydd, Swansea.Their children (dates are +/1 year) were: William b 1876, Rebecca Jane b 1878, Mary Hannah b 1884 (our neighbour), Philip b 1886, Margaret b 1888 (my GM), Elizabeth b 1890, Sarah b 1883, Ruth b 1884, Lewis b 1899, Jonah b 1901, Gladys b 1905. Census images for 1881-1911 confirm these dates and location. Because these were my direct family, I'm sure of this census data.

Up until now, I've had my GGF's parents as James Phillips b 1829 in Pembrey and Rebecca Hugh b 1827 who married in 1849. Though I've placed 'question marks' on this. If true, James's father was a John Phillips. The best fit I have on early census data is that James's siblings were: Ann b 1851, William b 1853, John b 1855, David b 1857, James b 1859,, Philip b 1862, Rebecca b 1865, Mary b 166 and Henry b 1870. James's family (including John b 1855) moved into the village around 1861.

My friend is descended from a William Phillips  b 1847 in Pembrey who moved to the same village some 20 years later. With his wife Margaret b 1849 (who was born in the village), he had children Frances b 1873, David, b 1875, Mary b. 1877, Thomas b 1881, Sarah b 1884 (my friend's GM), Margaret Ann b 1888 and William b 1891. I'm much less sure about this but the best fit I have is that William's parents were Thomas b 1817 Pembrey and Mary with siblings Joseph (?) Mary b 1842 Elizabeth b 1848/1852 and Catherine b 1848/1852. Somewhere I have conflicting census/birth dates for the last two.

My friend's GM maintained that she was related to mine. I can't see any sibling or 1st cousin relationship as yet. Possibly Thomas b 1817 was related in some way to James b 1829 but in the Pembrey baptism records (with a +/- 5 year search) I can find only:
- a Thomas Phillip b 1821 (not 1817) to John and Mary
- a James Phillip b 1827 (not 1829) to John and Jane

To make matters more confusing, searching the baptism records (+/- 5 years) for a William Phillips shows two:
- one born in 1855 to John and Mary (not to James and Rebecca) which means my early census 'fit' for my GGF is probably wrong
- one born in 1852 to Thomas and Mary; the parents' names match my 'best fit' for the William Phillips whose census records consistently show his dob as 1946/7!

Because this is a 'sideline' for me, I don't want to spend much money on certificates. If I can give my friend some leads, she can follow them up herself. If I can't find any, that's OK too.

Thanks,

Mike

[richardanthony]

have you considered both taking dna tests to confirm there is a relationship, may solve a lot of time and expense but aware you dont really want to invest too much, just an idea.

[Mike Morrell (NL)]

Good idea, Richard! I hadn't thought of that. Initially, I'd assumed that if was a link it would be easily traceable. I'm beginning to doubt it!

 

have you considered both taking dna tests to confirm there is a relationship, may solve a lot of time and expense but aware you dont really want to invest too much, just an idea.

[richardanthony]

when was your gf dob and his name and wifes name etc?

[osprey]

Have you considered buying a copy of your John's marriage cert? Rather cheaper than the DNA test and would give name & occupation for his father.

John Phillips june qtr 1875 Swansea vol 11a pg 860 with Mary Williams on the same page

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Looking at census entries in 1861, the 2 families would appear to be living next to each other
Bryncoch, Pembrey RG9/4115 folio 99 pg 19
Thomas Phillips head 48 labourer b. Pembrey
Mary wife 49 b. Kidwelly
Thomas son 22 b. Llanelly
Jonah son 20 b. Pembrey
Catherine dau 10 b. Pembrey
John son 7 b. Pembrey
Jane dau 5 b. Pembrey
\\
James Phillips head mar 32 coal miner farming 6 acres of land b. Pembrey
Rebecca wife 34 b. Kidwelly
Ann dau 10 b. Kidwelly
William son 8 b. Pembrey
John son 7 b. Pembrey
David son 4 b. Pembrey
James son 2 b. Pembrey

Baptisms in Pembrey
15 Aug 1853 John Phillip son of Thomas, collier, and Mary
30 Dec 1855 John Phillip son of James, collier, and Rebecca

James Phillips of Bryncoch, Pembrey married Rebecca Hugh of Banc yr Efel, Kidwelly  30 Dec 1849 in the parish church of Kidwelly, his father John Phillip, labourer, her William Hugh, smith. Rebecca signed Hughs.

[osprey]

The James who was baptised 21 Sept 1827 in Pembrey to John & Jane is not the one who married Rebecca Hugh(s) as he was buried 24 Sept 1827 aged 3 days.