Wilsher blood line, Nottingham, Joseph Wilsher

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1851*Ashover, Derbyshire
James Holmes 1804 Ashover, Derbyshire,  Head
Ann Holmes abt 1832 Ashover, Derbyshire,  Daughter
Sarah Holmesabt 1838 Ashover, Derbyshire, Daughter
///
William Knight abt 1805 Beeston, Nottinghamshire, England Head
Harriet Knight abt 1806 b Arnold Nottingham
Ann Knight abt 1837 Arnold, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter 
Fanny Knight abt 1840 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Daughter 
Henry Knight abt 1845 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Son Ashover,
Maria Knight abt 1847 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Daughter
This is Fannys bap*
FANNY KNIGHT   Christening: 16/61839  Arnold, Nottingham  Parents: WILLIAM KNIGHT Mother: HARRIET
other baps there include*(Confusing as Arnold down for Harriet and rest Wellington?)
2. JAMES KNIGHT -  Christening: 06 MAY 1827 Arnold, Nottingham
3. JOSEPH KNIGHT Gender: Male Christening: 14 FEB 1813 Arnold, Nottingham
4. MARY ANN KNIGHT Is this Maria?)Gender: Female Christening: 07 JUL 1844 Arnold, Nottingham,
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1861*Think this is her *
George Mann    40       
Ann Mann 34       
Charles Mann    13       
Harriett Mann   10       
John Henry Mann 6       
Fanny Mann    4       
Elizabeth Mann    9 Mo       



the Knights from Arnold may not be who you write about, Sue may be wrong, but She never says She is right, history always changes, you can only do your bit, i may put up much more soon about the Knights, maybe, you must just get on with what you want to say, you must evan frustrate yourself now gal, remember to, the further back you go if you see unknown names like the Wilshers with older names it meens they know them as alls good, in the far past they would know these things, and know who was staying with them

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Joseph Wilsher of 6 Gedling Street Nottingham

So I have writ about a Joseph Wilsher of a 6 Gedling Street Nottingham in past posts...

I have long believed he was related to the rest of the Wilsher family. I purchased the marriage certificate of my 3rd great aunt and boom, her address is given as a 6 Gedling street... This added with her sister Harriet Paddock nee Wilsher also showing up in a news report with a person from the same address...  I am starting to think this Joseph is in fact their dad, Husband to Elizabeth Wilsher nee Woodward.

I will have to wait for the 1921 census to fully prove though.

Marriage-25 May 1915-Nottingham
Ernest Owen a carter son to Thomas Owen marriage to Mary Wilsher a hawker child of Joseph Wilsher a hawker.
Ernest Owen and Mary Wilsher Address 6 Gedling st.
Witness Mary's sister Sarah Wilsher.


"DESERVED WHAT SHE GOT."
MAGISTRATE'S REMARK ASSAULT CASE. •

"At the Guildhall to-day, Mary Ann BrierJey, 2. Lewis-place, Ranchfte-street, Nottingham, charged Harriet Paddock, 25, housewife, 36, Pipestreet, and Joseph, alias Jim, Wiltshire, 50. described by the police as a poacher, of 6, Gedlingstreet., with assault. Mr. A. F. (defending) suggested that Bnerley was roiling drunk, and injured herself falling. Complainant: Certainly not, sir. I had my senses me. Was you there? Mr. Heane: No. I was not. lam glad to say. But I have several witnesses who were. Brierley having no witnesses, the chairman (Mr. W. Davi?) said Mr. Heane need not waste his time calling those for the defence. Complainant deserved all she got. She should keep away from »uch people and such places (public houses). The case was dismissed."

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try and get the soliciters name right, dordi, what am i to do with you,


look at the records below, Arnold is like a satalite place years back, many fields between that place and Nottingham, now its all just one mad place, Walter was there, why, and then he gives an alias as an Hartley, there from Scotland and the north, William says he to his an Hartley that to would bring Walter and the many Williams as one, i have found a record saying the Williams as in William Wilsher was travelling in a wagon that had a name printed on saying Maria Hartley of Leeds, and them with Blue eyes, wow, i know everyone is lieing but genealogy, well it just gets madder


Wednesday 16 June 1915 Nottingham Evening post

ARNOLD MAN’S ESCAPADE. What was described Deputy Chief Constable Harrop as a bad case of drunkenness in charge of pony and cart, and furious driving, was heard Mr. G. Fellows and other magistrates the Nottingham Shire Hall to-day. The defendant was Walter Wiltshire, 32, horse dealer, of Arnold, and the offence was committed in Front-street, Arnold, the morning of tho 11th inst. P.c. Jackson said defendant was rolling about from one side of the trap to the other. When seen afterwards defendant agreed that he was drunk, and said that if the officer would return in half an hour he would be able to speak to him. Defendant was fined 15s. for being drunk, and a guinea for furious driving.

7 May 1901 Derbyshire Courier
Walton; Taking Pheasant in the Close Season. —Walter Wiltshire was charged with an unlawful  taking  during the close season, Walton, on April 21sl—Inspector Evans, of the Chesterfield Police Force, slated that he visited the defend van the day named and asked his wife what her husband had brought that morning, and she answered " nothing." Witness then asked defendant what he  had under his jacket, and replied "nothing but my waistcoat'' Witness searched the cupboard, and found a recently killed pheasant there -Defendant said he had brought the bird for shilling.—Fined and costs

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you have researched much, why not just put the lot down in one go, i am all good with the truth

Hi again,
             I hope all is well, When I have time I  will post more, I am currently researching 5 families that directly relate to the Wilsher family... I now have 3 folders, which are slowly filling up with birth/marriage/death certificates, Photos of people/ graves, maps and news reports...


Its slowly becoming a history archive of this family, many years to go yet but It will keep growing...

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this is the post about the name Hartley I wrote a few pagers back, this is when I first saw the name of Walter Wiltshire, then I came across those two above, look how He is around Chesterfield, that's where Brampton is, that is part of a massive circle that they travelled including Nottingham where Arnold is in the other report

     

Oral history as past down was Williams Wife came from Scotland, in records She is said to be registered in Yorkshire, my Mother when young would plait Her hair and She would tell of the old history, my Mother telled me of these times, She said She was born round a place named Musselburgh  in the mid to late 1800s, on a record that was shown to me it says Her Fathers name was Hartley, who Her Mother was I don't know, also the first name She was known by was not the one used on any record I have seen of Her, i think the two Williams are Her Husband and Son, who Walter is i don't know but Her Husband sure as lots of names so it could be Him, young William thoe is only about 14 not 20, and the name he gives as David could be a clue, my Mother  telled of a young boy who died, I always thought She meant Her Mothers Son, but now it could mean Young WIlliam had a Brother, or his Grandad was named David Hartley and a Child that died was named after Him, who knows it could or could not be a clue,  these are rip roaring Gipsy People of their own day, so the Hartleys of Scotland could be related to these great People, who the Hartleys are I do not know,

these are just small extracts from larger posts in this thread

 

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 Nottinghamshire 1907 

                                  ALLEGED FALSE PRETENCES AT NEWARK.

  David Hartley, alias Walter Wiltshire, of no fixed abode, was charged Newark Police-court this morning,  with obtaining  a guinea with false pretences, from Edmund Crow, saddler, Mill-gate, Newark. Prosecutor said that on Thursday morning prisoner came into  his shop and said he was from Catesby and Co. with cork lino.
Nottingham 1910

                NOTTINGHAM MAN CHARGED WITH AN OFFENCE COMMITTED IN 1903.

 A case illustrative the long arm of the law came before Messrs. T. Ships tone and J. E. Pendleton at the Nottingham Summons Court to-dav, when William Wiltshire, alias Hartley, of 1, Kelk's-yard, Count-street, Nottingham, was summoned for using obscene language September 7th, 1903, and for assaulting Police-Constable Manners May 26th. The  evidence showed that seven years ago the defendant did not appear answer (be summons, and warrant had been taken out against him.  Derbyshire 1914

                                               USELESS  VARNISH.

William Wilsher (20), hawker, giving his address as 26, Bridgehouses, Sheffield, was charged at Chesterfield, to-day, with committing   “a very mean trick.” Two charges of obtaining money by false pretences were preferred against the youth, who is the son of Sheffield hawkers. on Friday', the 13th inst., prisoner called at her house and asked if she wanted to buy some varnish, saying he was a varnisher, that he had been doing work at Mr. Logging house at Brampton, and that the varnish he had over his master was allowing him to sell. William Wilsher charged before as David Hartley
 
  Derbyshire 1888

                                           Horse Stealing at Wirksworth
Thomas Knight 33 alias Graham Tin Man was charged with stealing an horse the property of Sarah Wilshaw a widow, the prisoners sister is the proprietress of a traveling caravan stationed in a field, she employed him to look after the horse the horse was sold at Wirksworth market place to john Spencer, Knight was apprehended in Sheffield, the Jury found him guilty and he was sentenced to six months with hard labour, there was a large number of previous convictions, it was stated that they were not living together as Man and Wife

                           CAPTURE OF SUPPOSED HORSE STEALER. THIS DAY.
The borough forces, and Police-constable Wheatley, of the Derbyshire Constabulary, succeeded in arresting in Spring street a hawker named Thomas Knight on a charge of stealing a horse from Wirksworth . The horse has been recovered in Worksop. The accused is well known character.
                                     
                                       Brampton Chesterfield Derbyshire 1866

                                                   Shocking Depravity

                             At the County Magistrates at Chesterfield Tuesday last.
Joseph Wiltshire 22 of Nottingham itinerant Gipsy besom maker and Emma Graham 34 alias knight pot hawker of south sea Hants the latter charged with having stolen five pounds three shillings the property of David Allen pot hawker of Boroughbridge Staffordshire in the Griffin inn Brampton and the former with having feloniously received the same, but the prosecutor on not appearing they were both discharged, it was stated that the male prisoner knocked him down and when on the floor the woman cut out his pockets, They were then charged by Maria Knight (wife of the male, and daughter of the female prisoner) with assaulting her Saturday night, it was stated that Wiltshire was living with his own Mother in law as Man and Wife, the case was dismissed as the parties did not appear.

                                                     1874 Brampton
 
                                           Charge of Stealing a Donkey.   

Thomas Graham and James Knight, two Gipsies, were brought up in custody on remand with stealing an ass belonging to George Thompson, Brampton, The defence was that  the prosecutor, who had been drinking with the prisoners, had given them permission to sell the animal while he was intoxicated.—The Bench considering the  evidence was not sufficiently conclusive, dismissed the case.

                                                    1874 Derbyshire
                                               
                                                 Who Stole the Donkey

At the Magistrates' Clerk's Office, Chesterfield,  two men named respectively James Knight and Thomas Graham, were each brought up charged with stealing a donkey, the property of a travelling hawker named James Wright.—The evidence went to show that on Monday night the prosecutor bought an ass for 6s. which he saw in a field at Walton, and on the following morning he went for it, and it was nowhere to be found. On the previous evening he was in company with the prisoners, and he suspected them of taking 14s. and some coppers out of his pocket. —George Beeley spoke to buying the ass from the two prisoners for 6d., on the previous morning, and he put it into the Royal Oak stable. —Remanded till Saturday

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i have been looking at the Spencers for a time they sound like Smiths to me, also the Burches Birches up this way have the ring of the Smiths to, the mad ring is there, the Gipsys are mad to everyone, if you are not mad you will never learn enything, that sounds mad but thats just the way it is, i may just write back soon telling the real truth, but then again i am rather busy in my other researches, i will have to think about it, if you dont hear from me soon i will maybe write back next year

[skyshot1990]

i have been looking at the Spencers for a time they sound like Smiths to me, as are the Burches Birches, as are the Wilshers to, the mad ring is there, the Gipsys are mad to everyone, if you are not mad you will never learn enything, that sounds mad but thats just the way it is, i may just write back soon telling the real truth, but then again i am rather busy in my other researches, i will have to think about it, if you dont hear from mr soon i will maybe write back next year

I have a Liddia Wilsher birth 1908 marriage to a Charles spencer birth 1903, Liddia WIlsher parents are living in Caravan at Glebe Farm Old Whittington in 1939, Parents Thomas Wilsher 1891 and Liddia Higginbotto 1883 (second marriage of these two family names I have seen).

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i have found several records of the Higgingbothoms, i will not call it but think the name comes from a man, i have saw a real sad record later at Brampton, respect to all the People of the long yeares, r.i.p no matter who any one is or nothing the dead will always be respected, thats it, i have lots more records to of the Higgingbothoms, i have many records of many names, many names are good and were good with the Gipsies of the past, thats not what history wants you to know but who cares of their history



  Derbyshire 1913
                                                         The Linoleum Layers                                                         

                                               Charges Of False Pretences Dismissed

How goods were sold as result of "puffing", at. Whittington Moor, led to the appearance of two van-dwellers at the chesterfield County Police Court two charges of having obtained money by false pretence on November 27th  last year with intent The names were Thomas Wiltshire and Thomas Higginbotham They pleaded not guilty to having obtained under such pretences 16s. 6d. from Herbart Collie, Whittington Moor labourer, and 12s. from Annie Shaw, wife of a shopkeeper, Whittington Moor. Both defendants were defended Mr A. F- Neal. From the evidence it appeared  that the men called on the people from whom they obtained the money and told them that they were engaged with a number of men in laying linoleum at a large house in the district, and as there had been some left over they would sell the surplus for beer money divided among the workmen. The defendants said to be wearing white aprons, and they gave the impression that they were workmen. The linoleum was not-thoroughly  examined by the  purchasers before the defendants were paid the money for it. Mr collis, in his evidence, said Wiltshire told him that there were eight men and one boy working at the big house, and the linoleum he bought he stated it was worth £2. he asked 16s. 6d. for it 2s. for each of the men and 6d. for the boy. Mr Neal: Did you think these workmen were robbing their master' Witness Yes sir. Did you think they had got the right to sell their master's property for 16s. when it was worth £2 for beer? No answer. Did you believe the tale of the big house and they were working there, did you think you had the right to buy? did you think that it was cheap?—No sir. What then Did you think it was dear?—No sir, I never touched it.  i thought it was all right. Now, what as made you regret it? do you think you paid too much for it?  is that what the trouble is about? —Yes- Now tell me straight is that why you are here because you bought it a bit too dear?—Yes.  Yes Well what possible case could you call after that? Ald. Markham: did you part with the money wisely. I don’t know, sir. I thought it would be all right. Ald. Markham; Did you feel the linoleum? Witness: I never touched it. I never put my finger on it. Mrs Shaw deposed to paying 12s. for some of the linoleum.  i was told that she was getting a bargain, but when she went to roll out the linoleum with a knife it did not need cutting. You could break it right across she said
Mr Neal: Did jou examine the oilcloth before you paid for it? Witness: No.I didn’t till they had gone. In fact, you thought you had come across some respectable British working men who could sell their masters' property to get beer for themselfs. They looked like respectable working men. You don’t tell the magistrates that tale do you?—Yes I do. ... P.c. selvey  spoke to Wiltshire at Brampton. with Higginbotham, some days after the sale of the linoleum. On being identified as one of the men who sold the linoleum, Wiltshire ran in one direction, and went into the Rodney yard The constable followed him. but was unable to catch him or Higginbotham, who ran in the  opposite direction Mr Neal contended that there was no evidence that any statement made by the men was not true. probably it was not. but had not been made out there. "Men like these"  he said."like many others they live by there wits,  but if people are foolish enough buy things, because they think they are cheap,  I ask you to say that there is no case made out. It is no offence in England to sell things too dear, or a good many shopkeepers. I think, would be here.” (Laughter.) he admitted that the men had done some ‘‘puffing,” but that  was no offence. If people, he said liked to buy pigs in a poke  they must buy them. he pressed it as a question of law that there was not a statement made that amounted to false pretences. " Supposing,” he added, "that these goods were worth twice as much?” Mr Smith (the assistant magistrates’ clerk); They should not have been here then. (Laughter.) The Chairman (Aid. Markham) said the men had been very ably defended by Mr Neal. There was no doubt about it that they did obtain the mony by false pretences and by means of a trick, but the evidence was not sufficiently strong to convict. He had no doubt that the people had been defrauded by them. They would have to pay the costs