Alice

[BushInn1746]

Quote:"Henry BUDD or Wife was a NONCONFORMIST at Marriage (Wesleyan Methodist) in 1880. Have you tried their own Birth Registers?"

I am reminded so I will add here that Henry Budd's military papers include the information that he is Wesleyan, although it is also recorded (as I've posted previously) that he and Charlotte Legg were married in the Aldershot Parish Church.  They were married in early 1880 and Henry went to Bermuda with his regiment from 30 October 1880 to 22 November 1883, which explains why he is missing from the 1881 census, and Charlotte at that time is living with her parents.

Hello

Hoping Henry Budd's parents might be of the same faith (as Henry was at Marriage in 1880) and can only suggest that the Original Poster, contacts the Archives covering Southampton (Southampton Civic Archives & Hants County Record Office Winchester), to see if they have all the Wesleyan / Methodist Registers, or know of there whereabouts.

My reasoning is, that there was no Legal requirement to Register a Civil Birth, when Henry Budd was born.

If Henry Budd was born into a Wesleyan Methodist family at Southampton, Hampshire, his Birth might be recorded in them?

Just a theory.

Thanks Rosie99 for that later Census information.

Mark

[rosie99]

Quote:"Henry BUDD or Wife was a NONCONFORMIST at Marriage (Wesleyan Methodist) in 1880. Have you tried their own Birth Registers?"

I am reminded so I will add here that Henry Budd's military papers include the information that he is Wesleyan, although it is also recorded (as I've posted previously) that he and Charlotte Legg were married in the Aldershot Parish Church.  They were married in early 1880 and Henry went to Bermuda with his regiment from 30 October 1880 to 22 November 1883, which explains why he is missing from the 1881 census, and Charlotte at that time is living with her parents.

The marriage certificate image on the other thread for Henry & Charlotte gives the church as 'Wesleyan Church'
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545984.27

[BushInn1746]

Greensleeves, it was a great spot in the Military record you mention about Henry BUDD's religion.

I'm afraid if my family and historical siblings were anything to go by, some of mine were C of E (one even a Minister studied St Bees, Cumbria), others were Baptist, Wesleyan Methodist; Methodist and Quaker. My 4 X Gt. Grandfather had all his children baptised C of E until 1835. In 1836 my George Hood applied to join the Quakers and the York Quaker Minutes at Leeds University says he was refused Quaker Membership. But in 1845 the Quakers still buried him at Selby, in their Burial Ground as "Not in Membership". Later two other Sons (not in my line) became Quakers.


The only clues to NC are Budd being Wesleyan Methodist, for all I know Budd's father could have been another NC faith.

I still wonder, if that is Robert Budd in the 1851 Census at Southampton (prior to the Birth of Henry Budd)? Been suggested before I've since noticed on the other thread and occupation partly matches, with Father on the 1880 Wedding too.

Looking for Robert BUDD resident Southampton in the 1851 Census (prior to the Birth of Henry BUDD)

1851 Holy Rhood, [Southampton], Registration District - Southampton
Robert BUDD, Servant, Unmarried, 26, Grocer Assistant, born Newton Abbot, Devonshire.

Mark


ADDED:

Henry BUDD or Wife was a NONCONFORMIST at Marriage (Wesleyan Methodist) in 1880. Have you tried their own Birth Registers?

Father: Robert BUDD was a Grocer & Baker

Try Southampton Civic Archive and Hampshire County Record Office (if Registers not online). In some instances the recent Registers might still be with the Chapel.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=545984.msg3997206#msg3997206

[arthurk]

Another Budd-Pullen marriage that caught my eye:
Alfred George Budd & Mary Jane Pullen - Mar qtr 1890 Hambledon 2a 177

1891 census for Compton, Surrey (RG12/562 fo80 p10) shows Alfred as aged 27, born Elstead and Mary as 29, born Petworth.

So there were Budds in Elstead before Henry married Charlotte Legg from there. Might Henry's family be from there too?

I still think the answer might be found by untangling some of the Budd families in that area, as well as the Pullens that Alice seems to belong to.

[JenB]

Going back to the actual name on the 1891 census, in common with raybistre and arthurk my reading of it is Ulysee, or possibly Ulysse

Someone else thought the same here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606476.msg4559609#msg4559609 replies #2 and #3

There are quite a few records for a seaman called Joseph Ulysse/Ulysses born St Lucia c.1855, but I haven't been able to find anything to tie him down to the one who married Alice Pullen 

[arthurk]

Alice Pullen's birth was registered in Dover - Dec qtr 1858 2a 641 mmn Street.

Her parents appear to have been George Pullen and Caroline Street, who married in the Petworth district in Dec qtr 1857 2b 432 - his surname listed as Pullin.

EDIT: A lot of what's below here is wrong - see my next post.

I can't find any other children born to that marriage - in other words, Alice doesn't seem to have been anyone's full-blood sister.

I haven't found anything on her parents after 1861, so can't rule out half-siblings. Or might she (or Henry?) have been adopted and ended up in the same family? Or was she a sister-in-law?

[arthurk]

I had in fact already found Alice Pullen and her family in 1871, with 4 more children - reply #39. After a bit more searching in the GRO indexes I now have a longer list of children - all Pullen with mmn Streete (note different spelling), except for Alice (mmn Street):

Alice Emily - Dec qtr 1858 Dover 2a 641
Rosina - Jun qtr 1862 Chichester 2b 307
Edith Amelia - Sep qtr 1864 Petworth 2b 266
Henry Alonzo - Mar qtr 1867 Westhampnett 2b 330
Emma Isabel - Jun qtr 1869 Westhampnett 2b 332
George Richard - Jun qtr 1873 Westhampnett 2b 331
Frank William Stephen - Dec qtr 1877 Portsea Island 2b 431

[Bookbox]

Going back to the actual name on the 1891 census, in common with raybistre and arthurk my reading of it is Ulysee, or possibly Ulysse

Someone else thought the same here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=606476.msg4559609#msg4559609 replies #2 and #3

For what it’s worth, I fully agree with the above. I believe Alice’s surname is written Ulysee, and it probably should have been Ulysse.

A lot of time has been spent on this thread unearthing information that had already been posted on earlier threads. It would have been helpful if the OP had posted links to those earlier threads, or at least acknowledge them, rather than give the impression that this is a new enquiry.

[arthurk]

I agree that it would have been helpful to have been told about the previous thread, as we've been going over a lot of old ground. Still, I think I might have made a bit of progress...

I've been concentrating on Alice Ulysse nee Pullen, whose parents were George Pullen and Caroline Street. In 1861 Caroline said she was born in Islington, and I've been looking for her in 1851.

A strong match is in Brighton (HO107/1645 fo665 p18) where she appears with her parents William and Martha Streete and 3 siblings. All the children were said to have been born in Shoreditch, and there was a mass baptism at St Leonard's Shoreditch on 21 Jun 1835 of 5 children of William and Martha Streete, the 4 youngest of whom match the ones in the 1851 census. So I'm pretty certain that's the right family.

What I'm wondering now is whether Caroline (who we know is Alice's mother) may have had Henry before she married George Pullen, in which case his birth is likely to be found as Street(e). I haven't found anything yet to indicate whether his father was a Budd, or whether the Budd family might simply have adopted him.

If I'm right, Henry's life post-army and his account of his parents might be a kind of conflation of bits of his background: in 1851 Caroline's father was an eating house keeper - as was Henry later. And for whatever reason, maybe he was taken in by Robert Budd and his family, and viewed them as his parents. (They ended up in Sheffield, where Henry said his mother lived in his army papers.)

The 1891 census indicates that even if all this did happen, Henry still knew about his sister Alice. In fact since there were lots of Budds and Pullens around the Petworth area, and there are intermarriages, it's by no means impossible that George Pullen was related to the Budd family in some way.

Can anyone recall, please, if we have found Henry in 1861, as this might shed considerable light on this (he's not with Caroline). Other things that might help would be the wills of Robert Budd and his wife, and, if they exist, those of William and Martha Streete. (I haven't found their deaths.) Also deaths and wills for Caroline Pullen nee Streete, and possibly her husband George.