Author Topic: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset  (Read 8397 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #63 on: Sunday 12 August 18 22:57 BST (UK) »
A bit of historical information about Egremont in Cumberland:
 The Harrington family and the Earls of Northumberland feature in it.
 Egremont Barony belonged to the de Moulton family. 3 sisters of John de Moulton each received 1/3 of it in 1338. Joan De Moulton was wife of Robert Fitzwalter,  Elizabeth was wife of Sir Robert Harrington and Margaret married Thomas de Lucy.
The Lucy share descended to Earls of Northumberland. Earls of Northumberland obtained Fitzwalter share by exchange of lands in early 16thC and the Harrington share 1594. The Barony then descended with the Honour of Cockermouth.
 https://www.cumbriacountyhistory.org.uk/township/egremont
Cowban

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #64 on: Sunday 12 August 18 23:56 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Maiden Stone! All of this is super-interesting!  :) :D :)

Katherine Parr, 6th & last wife to King Henry, was from Kendal.

Katherine Parr is one of those people in history I keep coming over :) Our roads keep crossing!

Forton, home of my ancestors in 18thC, is on the list.

That is so cool! :) :) :)

The insertion is one word of about 5 letters (in contracted form) written in the margin to the right of the word seale (see last line of Snippet #22).

It might be yoken or yoven perhaps?

I agree, though I don't know why it's there, exactly where it is to be inserted (if indeed it is), or what it signifies.

Willow, I can't read it as today. The first letter appears to be y, with a vestigial tail looping forwards, though part of it has been cut off in your snippet in reply #56. Like HD, I believe the last letter is not y, but probably a final n, with downward extension, of which there are several examples in this document. As has been pointed out, it's a contraction, so we're looking for a word longer than 5 letters which fits the context. The word today isn't often found in wills of this period; this day would be more common.

I wonder if it somehow relates to the fact that he sounds as if he's signing off here (fixing his seal, day and year aforesaid, etc.), but in practice the will goes on much further? I'm still thinking about it ...

I bow to your better judgement, Bookbox  :) Thank you so much for the great work you do here! :) :D :)

I will rack my brain trying to figure out what it can be too!

Snippet #23:

...and allso whereas I willid to my sonne Thomas after he comyth to the age of xxj yeres my

manours landis and ten(emen)tis in Creke and Cleycotton Immediatly after the dethe of

Elizabeth Counteis of Oxforde yf Anne Graye late [y? = the?] wife ^t of my brother John [Gray?] and now wife^ to sir Richarde Clement be

then lyvynge sholde be unto unto my said sonne Thomas duringe his lyf of the said Anne Graye

as by my said will afore made playnly apperithe whiche legacyes made unto my

said iij sonnes and every of them concerning the said manours landis and ten(emen)tis I revoke

and adnull by this my present will and for Recompense wherof I will that my said...



Cley Coton, Northamptonshire.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp595-610
28. Tho. marquis of Dorset. Grant, in fee, of the park called Beamount Lease, alias Beamount Wood, Leic., adjoining the King's park of Leicestre Fryth, and of Barden park, Leic.; in exchange for the Marquis's manor of Cley-Coton, Northt. Del. Westm., 28 May 17 Hen. VIII.—S.B.


I am interested in any references to Edward Wootton and Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk (Brother-in-Law of Henry VIII), as I am a bit of a collector of photocopy prints and images of documents relating to the Manor of Stockingford, alias Stokyngforth and Stoccingford & others), mine are photocopy prints of those in the Aston Charters (now in the British Library Dept of MSS).

The Manors of Stockingford were at the place called Galley Common, where finds date back 2,000 years. A Map of the Plot of Galley Common was drawn in 1590 for an Exchequer Case held in the time of Elizabeth I. The documents say the map was based on a description in an ancient Deed of Hughe Lylborne. Hugh Lilleburn registered / held property at Stockingford in 1280.

Stockingford from John Nichols, The History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752119.msg6005900#msg6005900


Monument to Henry Grey Duke of Suffolk Lord of the Manor of Astley, where a Hollow Oak once stood
https://www.ourwarwickshire.org.uk/content/catalogue_her/duke-of-suffolks-monument-astley


Enerdale mentioned earlier is Ennerdale, Cumbria. River Ehen. Apparently forfeited by Henry Duke of Suffolk, Father of Lady Jane Grey.

Mark


Thank you so much, Mark! More and more pieces falling into place. Yes, they are an extremely interesting family, aren't they? :)

Yes, I have been thinking about that too, as we have been going through pages and pages of listing of manors only for him to lose them all ...

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #65 on: Monday 13 August 18 04:42 BST (UK) »
I wonder if it somehow relates to the fact that he sounds as if he's signing off here (fixing his seal, day and year aforesaid, etc.), but in practice the will goes on much further? I'm still thinking about it ...

I have a dim memory of seeing catalogue descriptions of old documents in which the type of seals which hang off the bottom of the main parchment were described as being yoked.

The line is:  ...have to this my wyll put my seale...

Is the PCC copyist helpfully qualifying the written statement with the exact location of the seal?

While the word has a contraction mark, plenty of words in this will bear marks yet the nature of the contraction is unclear or apparently negligible.  Tomason is one; I couldn't see an obvious contraction and didn't want to force one, so just transcribed it as written.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #66 on: Monday 13 August 18 05:07 BST (UK) »
Snippet #27:

...sonne asmoche mony as the said londes and ten(emen)tes callid Leysthropp lackithe of the yerelye

value of xl li And I will allso to my said sonne Thomas that Immediatly after he comythe to the

age of xxi yeres Bardon Parke in the countie of leic(estre) the manour of Stokede(n)nysse in the

countie of Somers(ett) to have to hyme duringe the lyfe of the said Anne Graye now wife to s(ir)

Richarde Clement and after hur decease and after my said sonne Thomas comythe to to thage

of xxi yeres I will and gyve to my said sonne Thomas my said manour off Bosworthe w(i)t(h)...


Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #67 on: Monday 13 August 18 05:28 BST (UK) »
Snippet #28:

...thappurten(a)nces and all my landis and tenementes and other hereditamentes in Bossworthe in the

countie of Leicestr to have to hym for terme of his lyfe And allso I will that if the said Bardon park

and the said manour of Stokedennysse be not of the yerelye value of xl li above all charges yt

myne Executours or one of them shall assigne other of my Landis and tenementes to make in all to

the yerely valeue of xl li and that Landis and ten(emen)tis so to be assignid shalbe also to my said sonne

for terme of Lyfe of the said Lady Anne Graye and till the said assignement be had I will that my

Executours or one of them shall yerely content and paye unto my said sonne Thomas as moche

monye as the said manours landis and tenementes callyd Bardon parke and Stokedennysse

lackith of the yerely value of xl li And I will also that if anny of my manours shall fortune...



NOTES:

I have transcribed the money amounts in these snippets as xl li for clarity.  They are written xlli.

In the name of Stokedennysse one or both ns could be a v.

I have done a quick search for a Stoke Dennis or Stoke Devyse in Leicestershire without luck.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #68 on: Monday 13 August 18 08:31 BST (UK) »
I wonder if it somehow relates to the fact that he sounds as if he's signing off here (fixing his seal, day and year aforesaid, etc.), but in practice the will goes on much further? I'm still thinking about it ...

I have a dim memory of seeing catalogue descriptions of old documents in which the type of seals which hang off the bottom of the main parchment were described as being yoked.

The line is:  ...have to this my wyll put my seale...

Is the PCC copyist helpfully qualifying the written statement with the exact location of the seal?

While the word has a contraction mark, plenty of words in this will bear marks yet the nature of the contraction is unclear or apparently negligible

Yes, I'm sure yoken is the right answer to this. Well done.

Offline WillowG

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #69 on: Monday 13 August 18 16:25 BST (UK) »
I wonder if it somehow relates to the fact that he sounds as if he's signing off here (fixing his seal, day and year aforesaid, etc.), but in practice the will goes on much further? I'm still thinking about it ...

I have a dim memory of seeing catalogue descriptions of old documents in which the type of seals which hang off the bottom of the main parchment were described as being yoked.

The line is:  ...have to this my wyll put my seale...

Is the PCC copyist helpfully qualifying the written statement with the exact location of the seal?

While the word has a contraction mark, plenty of words in this will bear marks yet the nature of the contraction is unclear or apparently negligible

Yes, I'm sure yoken is the right answer to this. Well done.

Yes, that must be it! Brilliantly deducted! :) :D :) What would I have done without you? 

... he sounds as if he's signing off here (fixing his seal, day and year aforesaid, etc.), but in practice the will goes on much further

I noticed that too, Bookbox. That was so weird.

Thank you so much again, everybody! :) :-* :)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #70 on: Monday 13 August 18 16:43 BST (UK) »
Snippet #29:

...to be assignid to my said sonnes or anny of them to make of their yerely value of xl li that none

of my manours landes and ten(emen)tes gyven wyllid or assignid by me shalbe no parte therof and

I will allso that my lorde my fathers will be p(er)fourmed and fullfillid w(i)t(h) spede and diligence with

the rentes Issues and proffittes of all suche Manours londes and ten(emen)tis as to me frome hym discendid

Suche exceptide and forprisid as by me be willid gyven granntid or asigned to my said wif and to

my said sonnes or to any other parsone or p(ar)sonnes And I will allso that my lady my mothers...

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquess of Dorset
« Reply #71 on: Monday 13 August 18 17:12 BST (UK) »
Snippet #30:

...will be with spede and diligence fulfillid and p(er)fourmed w(i)t(h) the rentes Issues and proffittes of all

suche manours landis and ten(emen)tis liable to the parfourmannce of her will and I will allso

that next after my funerall and myn owne debtes contentid and paid that myne executours

withe spede and diligence shall make and buylde a Chappell of Asteleye accordinge to the

will of my lorde my father and to be made after suche goodly fashion as by the discrescion of...