George Gray born 1848 Sunderland - Help me break down a brick wall please

[avm228]

So you are tracing back from Rose Isabel Gray, mmn Bennett, Mar qtr 1893 Chelsea.

[avm228]

I see the last child of the marriage, Violet, was baptised in 1896:

18 Nov 1896 at Emmanuel Church, Paddington

Violet Muriel Gray, dau of George (plumber) and Julia, of 33 Second Avenue.

[rosie67]

Yes indeed poor Aunty Vi never knew her Father and her husband died within a year of marrying so she was quite an unlucky lady

[rosie67]

Yes AVM 228.

Tracing back from my Grandmother Rose Isabel,  and as my Father had the certificates we know they are all correct.

[Rosinish]

"My Father told me no one spoke of his Grandfather George Gray and there are strangely no photos - there are many of his wife and children but none of him He was a Plumber-Journeyman. He died young at the age of 45 in 1897 Paddinton"

Could it be not being around a lot of the time to have his photo taken as well as a possibility he didn't like having his photo taken (there's a lot of us who don't like being photographed)? or...

Maybe there were things about him thought/known to relatives when he was on his 'travels' & didn't particularly like what they thought/knew i.e. didn't want him in photos?
Seems there was some reason for him not to have been talked about?

Annie

[avm228]

So your information at the London end looks pretty secure, and links through the 1891 census to George supposedly b c 1853 Sunderland and from there through Fred’s details to John George and Jane.

I wouldn’t be that worried that he changed a few details for his London life.  It is not uncommon to find people used their middle names and/or switched between their names in the 19th century.  Also he was a lot older then Julia so may have tweaked his age to reduce the apparent gap in his second marriage.

Have you looked at whether his first wife was definitely deceased?  Just in case he had something to hide?

[rosie67]

Hi AVM 228

Well that was the problem finding who the wife was, there seemed to be a lot of Grays in the right area, but since I have added the marriage certificate on Ancestry the hints are pointing me to Jane Hunter as the first wife.

His son Frederick from his first marriage born 1875 indicates that he probably was around 11 when his Father remarried, I would have thought he probably would have known if his Mother had died at that age unless for some reason it was hidden.

Yes interesting thoughts about the photos. My Dad said it was strange that no one had ever talked about him when I was trying to find out information about him , they seemed to be a lively family. All played the piano and sang very well. My Aunt told me they were great to visit you always had a good time

[Girl Guide]

I see from the 1871 census which was before John George married Jane Hunter, that his occupation is plumber and gas fitter.

The occupation seems to be consistent all through the various documentation that you have.

Have you made any attempt to find a death for Jane?

I see that it looks as though they had a son before Fred:-

GRAY, JOHN  WILLIAM     HUNTER     
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 701   

Who unfortunately died:-

GRAY, JOHN  WILLIAM     0     Order
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 410
 

[rosie67]

Yes I noticed the child who died. I have not been able to find a death certificate for Jane although that doesn't mean there isn't one there of course.

It is interesting the family went up there for holidays, I have quite a lot of photos of my Father and Grandmother & Gt Grandmother up there so am sure there was no family issues otherwise it is unlikely they would have made the very long journey. I see also that one of the girls in the photos from sunderland was a bridesmaid at my Grandmothers wedding

Isn't  it strange that a marriage certificate of one of his Sons should give me a ead. BUT still doesn't answer the question as to that line on his marriage certificate of his Father - I assumed he was illegitimate