Bestal/Bestall of Wicklow

[tmusabotf]

Hello, I’m looking for any information re my ancestors from Wicklow, in particular my great grandfather who appears to be William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow. I’m not 100% sure he is my great grandfather but a name Cullen appears on two certificates and the dates kind of tie in.

I’m looking for any information re William Bestal b1862 his siblings and siblings of his mother Anne Cullen and father William Bestal as this is where I’m at a loss.

If anyone has information at all to connect William Valentine b1862 to William Bestal b1893 ( my grandfather)  I would really appreciate it.

Here’s what I’ve got so far:-
William Bestal Baptised 5 may 1862, county Wicklow (could be my great grandfather), online baptismal certificate states his name was Valentine Bestal but Valentine is scored out and replaced by by William.
William (Valentine’s) parents were William Bestal and Anne Cullen (possibly my great great grandparents) sponsor on baptismal certificate is Mary Reilly. 

I think there is a strong possibility these are the parents of William Bestal (my grandfather) as the date and the name Cullen ties in with regards to my grandfathers baptismal certificate as per info below.

My gandfather was William Bestall (photo attached, (need to scroll to the right)) was baptised 1/2/1893 Rathdrum, Wicklow. Godparents John Cullen and Brigida Corcoran, parents William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran.

His mother Margaret Corcoran Baptised 22 Jun 1855 Avoca,co Wicklow.
Margaret’s parents were Rose Carroll and John Corcoran.
sponsors/godparents on her baptismal certificate are Richard Murray & Catherine Goggins

William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran were married on 2 Jul 1888 Avoca Williams address shows as Ballinakill, Margaret’s address - Bariniskey, witnesses John & Mary Sullivan. Both died in Scotland

William Bestall b1893 (my grandfather) siblings were
Bridget born Wicklow, Ireland Married William Martin in Ireland
Margaret married to .... Kelly.
Mary Anne Bistal b13 Sep 1888 in Avoca, Baptised 16 Sep 1888, Avoca, address Balinastraw, godparents Brian &Maria Laughlin
John (aka Jack) Bestial b12 Oct 1890 • Aughrm, Ireland Baptised 13 Oct 1890 as address Mongnacool, parish Aughrim, godparents Andrew & Margaret Cosgrove,
Edward b1895 Rotunda house Dublin
Francis b1898 Wicklow
All died in Kilsyth Scotland apart from Edward who possibly  died in Ireland possibly Wicklow as he went back to Ireland to work for relations

Timeline in brief
William Bestal and Anne Cullen
William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow - son
William Bestall b1893 Wicklow probably son and my grandfather

If anyone has any information as to which Bestall/Bestal family William Bestall husband of Anne Cullen is connected to it and if William Bestal married to Margaret Corcoran is William (Valentine’s son) it would help me a greatly as I’ve been trying to find out for many years and have got nowhere.

It’s clear that the name should either be Bestal or Bestall, I have an old money box with the surname Bestall on it so it appears either my  grandfather or great grandfather knew the correct spelling but registrars heard it and wrote it differently both in Ireland and Scotland

Thanks in advance.

[tmusabotf]

Hello, I’m looking for any information re my ancestors from Wicklow, in particular my great grandfather who appears to be William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow. I’m not 100% sure he is my great grandfather but a name Cullen appears on two certificates and the dates kind of tie in.

I’m looking for any information re William Bestal b1862 his siblings and siblings of his mother Anne Cullen and father William Bestal as this is where I’m at a loss.

If anyone has information at all to connect William Valentine b1862 to William Bestal b1893 ( my grandfather)  I would really appreciate it.

Here’s what I’ve got so far:-
William Bestal Baptised 5 may 1862, county Wicklow (could be my great grandfather), online baptismal certificate states his name was Valentine Bestal but Valentine is scored out and replaced by by William.
William (Valentine’s) parents were William Bestal and Anne Cullen (possibly my great great grandparents) sponsor on baptismal certificate is Mary Reilly. 

I think there is a strong possibility these are the parents of William Bestal (my grandfather) as the date and the name Cullen ties in with regards to my grandfathers baptismal certificate as per info below.

My gandfather was William Bestel (photo attached, (need to scroll to the right)) was baptised 1/2/1893 Rathdrum, Wicklow. Godparents John Cullen and Brigida Corcoran, parents William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran.

His mother Margaret Corcoran Baptised 22 Jun 1855 Avoca,co Wicklow.
Margaret’s parents were Rose Carroll and John Corcoran.
sponsors/godparents on her baptismal certificate are Richard Murray & Catherine Goggins

William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran were married on 2 Jul 1888 Avoca Williams address shows as Ballinakill, Margaret’s address - Bariniskey, witnesses John & Mary Sullivan. Both died in Scotland

William Bestel b1893 (my grandfather) siblings were
Bridget born Wicklow, Ireland Married William Martin in Ireland
Margaret married to .... Kelly.
Mary Anne Bistal b13 Sep 1888 in Avoca, Baptised 16 Sep 1888, Avoca, address Balinastraw, godparents Brian &Maria Laughlin
John (aka Jack) Bestial b12 Oct 1890 • Aughrm, Ireland Baptised 13 Oct 1890 as address Mongnacool, parish Aughrim, godparents Andrew & Margaret Cosgrove,
Edward b1896
Francis b1898 Wicklow
All died in Kilsyth Scotland apart from Edward who apparently died in Ireland possibly Wicklow as he went back to Ireland to work for relations

Timeline in brief
William Bestal and Anne Cullen
William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow - son
William Bestall b1893 Wicklow probably son and my grandfather

If anyone has any information as to which Bestall/Bestal family William Bestall husband of Anne Cullen is connected to it and if William Bestal married to Margaret Corcoran is William (Valentine’s son) it would help me a greatly as I’ve been trying to find out for many years and have got nowhere.

It’s clear that the name should either be Bestal or Bestall, I have an old money box with the surname Bestall on it.

Thanks in advance.

[tmusabotf]

Hello, I’m looking for any information re my ancestors from Wicklow, in particular my great grandfather who appears to be William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow. I’m not 100% sure he is my great grandfather but a name Cullen appears on two certificates and the dates kind of tie in.

I’m looking for any information re William Bestal b1862 his siblings and siblings of his mother Anne Cullen and father William Bestal as this is where I’m at a loss.

If anyone has information at all to connect William Valentine b1862 to William Bestal b1893 ( my grandfather)  I would really appreciate it.

Here’s what I’ve got so far:-
William Bestal Baptised 5 may 1862, county Wicklow (could be my great grandfather), online baptismal certificate states his name was Valentine Bestal but Valentine is scored out and replaced by by William.
William (Valentine’s) parents were William Bestal and Anne Cullen (possibly my great great grandparents) sponsor on baptismal certificate is Mary Reilly. 

I think there is a strong possibility these are the parents of William Bestal (my grandfather) as the date and the name Cullen ties in with regards to my grandfathers baptismal certificate as per info below.

My gandfather was William Bestall (photo attached, (need to scroll to the right)) was baptised 1/2/1893 Rathdrum, Wicklow. Godparents John Cullen and Brigida Corcoran, parents William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran.

His mother Margaret Corcoran Baptised 22 Jun 1855 Avoca,co Wicklow.
Margaret’s parents were Rose Carroll and John Corcoran.
sponsors/godparents on her baptismal certificate are Richard Murray & Catherine Goggins

William Bestal and Margaret Corcoran were married on 2 Jul 1888 Avoca Williams address shows as Ballinakill, Margaret’s address - Bariniskey, witnesses John & Mary Sullivan. Both died in Scotland

William Bestall b1893 (my grandfather) siblings were
Bridget born Wicklow, Ireland Married William Martin in Ireland
Margaret married to .... Kelly.
Mary Anne Bistal b13 Sep 1888 in Avoca, Baptised 16 Sep 1888, Avoca, address Balinastraw, godparents Brian &Maria Laughlin
John (aka Jack) Bestial b12 Oct 1890 • Aughrm, Ireland Baptised 13 Oct 1890 as address Mongnacool, parish Aughrim, godparents Andrew & Margaret Cosgrove,
Edward b1896
Francis b1898 Wicklow
All died in Kilsyth Scotland apart from Edward who apparently died in Ireland possibly Wicklow as he went back to Ireland to work for relations

Timeline in brief
William Bestal and Anne Cullen
William (Valentine) Bestal b1862 Wicklow - son
William Bestall b1893 Wicklow probably son and my grandfather

If anyone has any information as to which Bestall/Bestal family William Bestall husband of Anne Cullen is connected to it and if William Bestal married to Margaret Corcoran is William (Valentine’s son) it would help me a greatly as I’ve been trying to find out for many years and have got nowhere.

It’s clear that the name should either be Bestal or Bestall, I have an old money box with the surname Bestall on it.

Thanks in advance.

[tmusabotf]

Thank you, that’s the certificate where Valentine appears to have been changed to William, I guessed he may be my great grandfather due to the name Cullen and worked out rough year from his death certificate in 1902 where it states he was 39 when he passed, so it kind of fits. 

Do you happen to know which church that the baptism took place?

Re COI I have often wondered about that, there seems to be a mixture of religions under that surname.

The earliest records I found were in the 1600/1700 and the name was Bestel and the strange thing is
My grandfather baptism is Bestel but birth certificate shows his surname as Bestall. I do realise though that back in the day a lot of the various spellings would be down to the registrar/priest writing it as it sounded and probably some people not being able to read or write.

In a way in my case I’m lucky as it’s quite an unusual name and only appears to be found mainly in Armagh and Wicklow, the odd time Dublin and elsewhere.

I have seen the above certificate but I couldn’t remember which website it was on, so thank you for posting.  I wish there was a search by name facility as would be so much easier to look. I’ll definitely search through it and hopefully find other family members

Thanks again for your help

[tmusabotf]

William Bestel/Bestall b1893 (my grandfather) siblings were
Bridget born Wicklow, Ireland Married William Martin in Ireland
Margaret married to .... Kelly.
Mary Anne Bistal b13 Sep 1888 in Avoca, Baptised 16 Sep 1888, Avoca, address Balinastraw, godparents Brian &Maria Laughlin
John (aka Jack) Bestial b12 Oct 1890 • Aughrm, Ireland Baptised 13 Oct 1890 as address Mongnacool, parish Aughrim, godparents Andrew & Margaret Cosgrove,
Edward b1895 Dublin
Francis b1898 Wicklow
 

No other children apart from William (father of the above children) are known for Bestal Cullen parents.
If William was their only child he would have taken over the family farm, but if that was the case why is he moving around so much.
Either he's not the eldest child or his father wasn't a farmer, or they lost the farm for some reason.

Apart from the marriage to Margaret Corcoran is there any record of where William comes from, did he and Margaret also move to Scotland? Are they in any census?

[tmusabotf]

Sorry I meant he may not have been a tennant farmer, just worked on various farms

Exactly not a farmer an agricultural labourer.

William b1862 was an agricultural labourer but his father is noted as a farmer

But he doesn't appear to have a farm, so was William fibbing to make his background sound better.

William born 1862 never at any point claimed he was a farmer, it’s his father William senior married to Anne Cullen who claims he was a farmer.  William b1862 and his son Edward worked on a farm

On the marriage to Corcoran William claims his father is a farmer.
I'm saying he may have fibed and his father was a Labourer like he was.

William b1862 has never claimed to be a farmer, it’s his father who is stated is a  farmer. Hope you understand, there’s nothing to say that William senior wasn’t a farmer so will have to presume that what he has said is correct and that his son William was a farm laborour probably for his father who was a farmer. There’s no proof William b1862 has lied in any certificates, if he was going to lie he would have said he was a farmer as well or another occupation better than a labourer, he’s been honest and said he was a laborour.

Makes no difference as to what his job was anyway as it’s his father and siblings I’m looking for.

William (Valentine) Bestal son of Wm and Anne occupation laborour, father farmer https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10776/5930195.pdf

That’s what has been written

Anyway I’m trying to get the details of William and Anne and any other children I have all the details of William married to Margaret that I need

It could also be as you said earlier that perhaps his father lost the farm or an elder sibling took over it, any children working for their father who ran a farm would be a farm laborour I’m sure

[tmusabotf]

Tidied up a few spelling errors and fixed William Bestel b1893 to shown as william Bestall as per newly found birth certificate 

[Sinann]

Anyway I’m trying to get the details of William and Anne and any other children I have all the details of William married to Margaret that I need

Yes we know but the only way to find them is clues for their son.
The only evidence they ever existed is one baptism record. Yes?
No deaths
No land records
No wills
No other children
No marriage.

They may not even be the parents of your William who married Margaret Corcoran. Which is why I was trying to find out as much as possible about him to prove that he was born in Wicklow.

[dathai]

Have you an error in your first post Bridget married William Martin
Bridget Corcoran married William Martin 1899 note the witness
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10381/5779902.pdf

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Arklow_Urban/Marsh/1814245/
born 1884
no 2
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02693/1991895.pdf

1909
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10027/5647458.pdf

1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Kilbride/Shelton/896338/

parents marriage 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/11019/8029234.pdf

Rose Corcoran,widow death 1891 informant John Sullivan son in law
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06082/4735162.pdf