John Westbury, was born in Gloucestershire, England 1824. Before emigrating to

[sparrett]

hi Graham

 ............i have marriage ,death amd other relevant certificates ....more than happy to to take pics of or copy and send to address....
regards Steve

Hi Steve,
Out of curiosity
On the HOULT/ WESTBURY marriage certificate, what "marital condition" is given for Hannah?

Widow, spinster....?

 Sue

[majm]

 

http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4795&ship=Castilian That's a link to the passenger list for the Castilian, in 1858,  John Westbury onboard.

http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?series=NRS5316&item=4_4794&ship=Regina

That's a link to the passenger list, for the Regina, for the HOULT family in 1857,  no charge, free to download etc, from the NSW State Archives.

Transporting convicted persons beyond the seas to New South Wales effectively ceased in 1840, but there were two chaps with the surname HOULT who had arrived under sentence, Edward, per the Royal Admiral back in 1792, and Henry per the Asia (5) in 1825.   Two with the surname HOULT arrived as garrison soldiers ... Thomas arrived with the Second Fleet and Richard arrived 40th Regiment in 1824. 

Re the surname HOULT,  when checking NSW records, you should consider the lack of standard spelling ... and the longhand script ... so do always consider HOLT and HALT and other variations.

Re marriages registered in the 1870s, 80s, etc in NSW regional localities including Tenterfield, but anywhere outside of the Sydney Metro area ...
Civil registration commenced March 1856.  For decades after that a dispute rumbled along between the colonial admin and the churches, simply because of the depth of detail the civil admin required on the m.c. registrations.   In many instances the NSW BDMs records are deficient, lack the vital info family historians rely on.  This is because the NSW BDM Registrar General did NOT receive a full record of the marriage, ie what is on the parish register is often far more detailed than the NSW BDM cert.   This very well known aspect is noted on the NSW BDM website, and most family history groups in years past were busy transcribing their local churches records.   

Here is a thread that may help determine where to find the original church register for the marriage in 1876, registered Tenterfield.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

I suggest that an official transcription of the Tenterfield marriage will have all the info as per the NSW BDM register, and is a better option for the official transcribers will be familiar with the handwriting of the scribe.

JM

[SteveHayward1962]

Hi Sue
It has spinster, married 1st September 1876 Tenterfield
Its John Westburys death certificate 1894 that gives away the story ,the informant Hannah Westbury doesn't name her two oldest boys James and John on it ,she names Richard the 3rd eldest as Johns eldest child to her .
regards Steve

[majm]

 

It can be significant to know that the actual question asked was about the issue of the marriage, so if a child was born out of wedlock, regardless of if a child of the deceased, that child is often NOT listed as a child of the marriage.   It depended on how strictly the funeral director interpreted that question ... afterall, it was the funeral director who completed the paperwork that went off to the NSW BDM.

So, just because those two were not listed as issue of the marriage, does not mean that they were definitely NOT his...  It leaves the question still open...  

ADD  in 1935 or thereabouts NSW law changed allowing for legitimising the birth status of children born prior to their parents formal marriage...

JM

[SteveHayward1962]

Hi

The Will reading of William Westbury 1960 [one of Johns sons ]he had no children so his estate was left to the sons of his brothers ....7  cousins turned up ....2 had to leave as they were told there father were not John.... my granfather Colin Westbury born 1915 was one of the cousins that stayed ....it was then he found out that John and James were not John Westburys but Hannahs form another father ..
regards Steve

[majm]

Hi

The Will reading of William Westbury 1960 [one of Johns sons ]he had no children so his estate was left to the sons of his brothers ....7  cousins turned up ....2 had to leave as they were told there father were not John.... my granfather Colin Westbury born 1915 was one of the cousins that stayed ....it was then he found out that John and James were not John Westburys but Hannahs form another father ..
regards Steve

Sorry Steve, but, regardless of who attends the reading of William's will, umm, as gently as my poor wordsmith skills provide ... May I note that who attends a reading of William's will in 1960 (or ever) actually has no real bearing of who were the legimate sons of John who died in 1894.
 
Have you obtained the probate/deceased estate file for the chap who died in 1894 ...  It may well be that he specifically states who were his children ... his will should be in the files at NSW archives...  Alternatively  It may well be that John Westbury was not the father but there's nothing that's been posted on this thread so far, that actually cannot be explained to show that John may have fathered them prior to marrying their mum.

ADD
The inheritance laws in NSW were sometimes difficult to understand, but the beneficiaries of a valid will did not need to be legitimate children to inherit.  The names missing from the 1894 death registration was part of a different set of NSW laws. 

JM

[majm]

This is a link to a thread on the Australian Resources board where an RChatter goes to the NSW archives and uses her digitised camera to take photos of various files for enquirers.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.0

There are other RChatters who also live in Sydney and go to the Archives at Kingswood on a regular basis, and others who go to the State Library in the Sydney CBD and others who go to other archival institutions to look up for various enquirers near to their localities.

JM

[majm]

 

Still a cloudy issue ...

Intestate 1894 - NSW law at that time usually meant that if there were legitimate children of a marriage, that they were recognised as entitled to be considered as beneficiaries but NOT illegitimate children.   
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13945680 Sydney Morning Herald 26 March 1894


ADD
In tho Estate of JOHN WESTBURY, late of Leech's Gully, near Tenterfield, in the colony of New South Wales, Farmer, deceased, intestate.
APPLICATION will be made after fourteen days from the pubiication hereof that Administration if the Estate of the abovementioned deceased may be granted to HANNAH WESTBURY, the Widow of the said deceased.
 
JM

[GWestbury]

Hi jm,

Thank you for the advice and info, especially the newspaper article.  How do you find these?

Cheers Grahame