Mineral rights

[axholme1234]

Thank you avm228. My grandfather's name was Charles Hill (1842-1931) and the house was called Boundary House in High Street Luddington, built on the river bed of the old river Don.

[Guy Etchells]

Thank you avm228. My grandfather's name was Charles Hill (1842-1931) and the house was called Boundary House in High Street Luddington, built on the river bed of the old river Don.

If a house is built on a dried up river bed it is not built on a river (i.e. the river is not free flowing on the old river bed), in that case the river has changed its course.
The mineral rights will revert to the person who owned the rights when the river was flowing through that "channel".
If Earl Fitzwilliam owned the mineral rights on both sides of the river, when it was flowing, he would own the rights under the old river bed.

If you have the date of the dispute it may be possible to find out more.
Cheers
Guy

[stanmapstone]

Thank you avm228. My grandfather's name was Charles Hill (1842-1931) and the house was called Boundary House in High Street Luddington, built on the river bed of the old river Don.

See this topic Re: Course of old River Don
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802482.msg6603999#msg6603999

Stan

[axholme1234]

Thanks Stan. Yes, it is the same topic. Do you have any idea as to who owned the mineral rights before the river Don was diverted? I assume Earl Fitzwilliam owned the land that Boundary House was built on, but maybe the previous owner kept the mineral rights? I think there must be a grain of truth in what my Dad said since it's such an unlikely topic. Maybe it was a group action by all the leaseholders? Sadly, I can't provide any more details.

[avm228]

I'm just not finding anything which is a good match - sorry.

There's Duke of Portland v Hill (Chancery, 1866) concerning the mineral rights attached to a lease of land at Bolsover granted by the Duke of Portland to one Archdeacon Hill.

Then Hill v Gregory (Surveyor of Taxes) (King's Bench, 1912) regarding the tax consequences of the grant of coal mining rights by a Mr Hill to the Warwickshire Coal Company.

Neither is what you have in mind, I'm sure.

[axholme1234]

Thank you so much for looking. No, neither of those you mention is relevant. Would it be better to check on Earl Fitzwilliam in case it was a joint action with several tenants/lessees perhaps? (But I don't want to put you to a lot of trouble; I'm very grateful for what you've done already)

[avm228]

The first thing I checked was the Fitzwilliam name (and indeed the full family surname, Wentworth-Fitzwilliam).  No dice, unfortunately.  Also searched fruitlessly for cases mentioning Luddington.

The trouble is that many of these old Chancery cases are not reported under the names of the parties but under more obscure headings, so it’s far from impossible that there is something there which I have not yet found, but it is much too big a period of time to browse just in case. 

Also bear in mind that many more straightforward cases went unreported (this is less likely if it really did go up to the House of Lords, though).

The National Archives’ catalogue shows that lots of papers of the Wentworth-Fitzwilliam family survive - that might be another angle to investigate?

[axholme1234]

Thank you. As you say, the problem is the time scale (and I doubt that the Wentworth papers are online and have been indexed).

As a (slightly) related topic, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the book Black Diamonds by Catherine Bailey about the Fitzwilliams and Wentworth Woodhouse.

[Guy Etchells]

The first thing I checked was the Fitzwilliam name (and indeed the full family surname, Wentworth-Fitzwilliam).  No dice, unfortunately.  Also searched fruitlessly for cases mentioning Luddington.

The trouble is that many of these old Chancery cases are not reported under the names of the parties but under more obscure headings, so it’s far from impossible that there is something there which I have not yet found, but it is much too big a period of time to browse just in case. 

Also bear in mind that many more straightforward cases went unreported (this is less likely if it really did go up to the House of Lords, though).

The National Archives’ catalogue shows that lots of papers of the Wentworth-Fitzwilliam family survive - that might be another angle to investigate?

Try Sheffield library they were given the Wentworth Woodhouse family archive in 1948 and may have something that helps.

I would also add the Fitzwilliams were good employers and loved by both their staff and the miners in their mines. So much so that when the Labour politician Manny Shinwell tried to virtually destroy Wentworth the President of the Yorkshire branch of the NUM said that the "miners in this area will go to almost any length rather than see Wentworth Woodhouse destroyed. To many mining communities it is sacred ground".

Cheers
Guy