Barbara J Hilton

[heywood]

that would be Barbara Hilton’s grandmother if we have the right family.

[jonw65]

Yes, having two Janets can make it confusing 
But it's also a good name for us, not so many of them about.

[heywood]

I just thought you had misunderstood my reference to ‘ mother’.

[Roy G]

Hi
The replies kept coming in as I was responding to previous messages, so my thoughts had to be constantly readjusted.

The finding of a Janet Hilton senior and her family at 44 Wingate Road Liverpool in 1939 has to be far more than an uncanny coincidence.  I am fairly confident that you have hit on the maternal line, so I am fully prepared to go with that line of thought and develop it. 

I very much doubt that is a false trail, and am now beginning to think that the late Barbara created in her own mind the family that she imagined she may have come from.  Overcoming that imaginary ancestry of hers has been a major stumbling block, but I think that with all your help, we have cracked it.

i am most grateful to everyone for their input, which as you may judge for yourselves, seems to have halved the initial problem I was faced with.  All that is missing, and perhaps I will never know, is the paternal line.  I'm sure there are many other researchers who have very similar problems and in all probability, they seldom get solved. 

Thank you all so much

Regards Roy G

[Roy G]

A few incidentals now to help tidy up loose ends,

Re
If you look on Free BMD, there is a Liverpool marriage for Janet Hilton in 1932.
(found that to Mervyn Nunn)
1939 register indicates a change of name for her but I can’t see a marriage.
(Does that show she was born c1908, but is no longer a Nunn and has another new partner?)

Now my own ignorance over adoption procedures, and a matter arising.
The official certificate which I have now seen a copy of confirms that Barbara was adopted by Joseph Shaw of 38 Lyell Street Everton.
BUT There is no mention of Joseph Shaw having a spouse on that certificate! 
I find it unusual that in 1928 a female child can be adopted by what appears to be a lone male.
Is this just the way adoption certificates were done then?

A matter arising.
I believe one of you stated that on Barbara's death in 2012, her parents were in fact listed as a Joseph Shaw (b1910) and a ? Jones (b1911).
Would that info have come from officially held records or just from a well meaning but possibly mistaken informant?

What i have in the back of my mind is a tree which I found on Geni which has a Liverpudlian Joseph Shaw with a then unmarried son (born 1910 so classified as a minor) also called Joseph Shaw.  Could the adoption record actually be a grandfather adopting his own son's illegitimate child?

Does that make sense to anyone?

Regards Roy G

[heywood]

1939 index shows 1909 as birth year and Bryce (Nunn) name.

There is a family tree with very little information.
Barbara Joanna Hilton parents Joseph Shaw 1910 and Jones 1911.
No other information re the parents.
There is a marriage for Barbara and death.

The Electoral Registers for 1925 show
Joseph Shaw and another couple at 38 Lyell Street

There is though an entry for John Shaw showing - same address and other couple on a different register. Both registers seem to be Spring 1925 so I don’t understand that.

[Roy G]

Thank you heywood.

I will look at the more recent records again, but now with the surname Bryce also in mind

Unfortunately, it is strongly believed that the family tree that you are referring to also includes certain unverified speculative information that has been recently added by an over-enthusiastic amateur, so that is why I am obliged to be extra careful.

As you know, discovering who may have been the father of an illegitimate child always presents family historians with major problems, that is why I was questioning whether the law would allow an lone male, to legally adopt a baby girl. Perhaps the law would be more flexible if this was his own illegitimate child and they had every reason to believe that he and his own family would care for it? Your confirmation that there was a Joseph Shaw at the Lyell Street address in 1925 is therefore most helpful.  Unfortunately in that year, the Joseph born 1910 would have only been 15, so would not have appeared on the Electoral Register.  If his father was also a Joseph as I suspect (by then either divorced or widowed) he may have been shown on that register. 

Onwards and Backwards

Regards Roy G

[heywood]

1911 index shows several Joseph Shaws in the area.
The Lyell street address does not seem to be a permanent address as the other couple are still living there a few of years before and later.

I must add that, unless you have the certificate, there is no proof yet that the  Hilton/Nunn marriage is the right Janet.

[Roy G]

Hi Heywood.  Thanks once again.

Although i can see there were other Joseph Shaws elsewhere in the Liverpool area, a Joseph Shaw that was living at 38 Lyell Street in 1928 appeared on the adoption registration as the adopting parent.  He must have subsequently moved making him less easy to identify among all the other J Shaws in the area, so I am left to clutch at any possible straws. 

The line I feel most strongly about (but only have the 1910 birth year to go on) relates to a tree I discovered on the Geni website. 
That tree has a Joseph Shaw junior born Toxteth 29 Nov 1910 (shown as unmarried), one of 12 children fathered by Joseph Shaw senior (b1880-d1944) and his wife Elizabeth nee Bulger (b1879-d1947).  If the Joseph Shaw junior was Barbara's father, and (being a minor himself) his own father Joseph Shaw senior felt obliged to become the adopting parent (giving her the new name of Marjorie Ada Shaw) the problem would be solved. 
A great solution, but lacking in lots and lots of proof.

NOTE:  Florence, the youngest sibling of Joseph Junior was born in 1925, so his own daughter born 1928 appearing as a further sibling would not have seemed too much out of place.


Regards Roy G