Help please reading census ??

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Fireman on steam boat?

Makes sense - he's a fireman on a lightship in 1861

[Brickwall Demolisher]

MabelB,
      Any chance of detail's please, Regards Just J
   


       

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Ref is RG 9, piece 4447, folio 81.  Albert is a married fireman b c1838, Hackney

the ship is called Moselle. She was out of London and 349 tons. I may be wrong about the lightship - that's how Ancestry have catalogued it, but I think its location on census night was Elbe lightship

[josey]

find a birth certificate for Alfred. Cannot find at all b.c for Harry.

Maybe he was registered under mother's maiden name? Maybe named Henry as first or second name?

This, as you already have, is Alfred:
WENTZELL, ALFRED       SADLER 
GRO Reference: 1857  J Quarter in WIRRAL  Volume 08A  Page 430

[josey]

A lot later I know but there may be a connection 

Reynolds Newspaper 4 Dec 1892
News wanted of James Thomas Wentzell who in 1884 was living in Islington, near the Hen & Chickens; also Arthur Herbert Wentzell who in the same year was living in Penge. If this should meet their eye or that of any kind friend who could give any information of their whereabouts the same would be gratefully received by their brother L A Wentzell, Cape Government Railways, Salt River, Capetown, Cape of Good Hope.

James Thomas may be the one in this marriage
Marriages Jun 1876   
Gare    Joseph William        Brentford    3a   121    
Strugnell    Martha Sarah        Brentford    3a   121    
WENTELL    James Thomas        Brentford    3a   121    
WENTZELL    James Thomas        Brentford    3a   121    
Wilson    Sarah Ann        Brentford    3a   121   

ADDED: Parish records showed he married Sarah Ann Wilson on 21 May; he was a bachelor, farrier sergeant 20 Hussars. How does this compare with occupation on Alfred's birth certificate?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looks like James the farrier was b St Pancras c1838 (or elsewhere in City of London, depending on which census you look at), He was discharged from the army in Jan 1878, did get a pension

Suspect this is the family in 1851

James Wentzell    35 - b Stepney
Maria Wentzell    36 - b Cardiff
James Wentzell    14 - b St Lukes
Alfred Wentzell    12 - b Hackney
Andrew Wentzell    7 - b Lambeth
Maria Wentzell    3 - b Cardiff
Lewis Wentzell    1 - b Lambeth

HO107, 1573, 371, 59

1861 shows James and a different wife plus a younger son Arthur.

Very interestingly, James is usually shown as James John. There's a baptism in  1816 of a John James Wentzell of Mile End Old Town, parents Gotlib, a mariner, and Hannah.

When Albert  marries  Charlotte Sadler his middle name is Godlip

[Mabel Bagshawe]

James John marries Maria Roberts in 1836

WENTZEL, ALBERT  GOTTLIEB   mmn ROBERTS
Q3  1839   SHOREDITCH   Volume 02  Page 319

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Mabel B / Josey,
        Many thanks for the info / help in trying to help,
I have ALFRED WENTZELL b 1856 / 1861, 1871, 1891 but no 1881, His son HARRY was born Lewes, Sussex 1882.( I have his b.c. ) This is the only record of my family in Sussex.I have ALFRED WENTZELL'S birth details of being born in Wirral Cheshire. Father entered is a JAMES WENTZELL.

 HARRY WENTZELL b 1854 ? His brother, I have his census of 1861, 1871 and 1881. 1881 is his last English Census. He leaves England and start' s another family in America. A bigamous marriage, never to return. Leaves behind wife and children. These written census record's all have him born in Liverpool. His wife, she marry's bigamously as well.
Have not been able to find his record of birth in 1854. His American obituary has a date of 25 th October 1854. The census, and word of mouth? are the only records that have 1854 and there Mother in the Liverpool area at that time. Their Mother, CHARLOTTE SADLER, it seem's was unmarried when she had the two boys, but it's always been an understanding that a JAMES WENTZELL was both of the boy's father's.
The censuses never ever show a JAMES WENTZELL only the Mother CHARLOTTE SADLER b Camberwell 1836? The 1871 census is the only census that has an elder male in residence with CHARLOTTE and the two boys. He is not a JAMES WENTZELL but  ALBERT GOTTLEIB WENTZELL who was born 1839. His father was also a JAMES WENTZELL.
Marriage Banns have been found for the year of 1859,Poplar area, for ALBERT WENTZELL and CHARLOTTE SADLER but they do not marry until 1871. Which seems a strange thing
ALBERT GOTTLEIB WENTZELL b1839 has an elder brother JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL b 1837. He enlists for a Army career 1857 to 1878. 20 years in INDIA, returns and marries a SARAH WILSON
 
I would like to know if it's possible to search HARRY's birth by his Mother's maiden name only. Whatether the bastardy records of 1854 , Liverpool would be worth looking into, and where these records are accessible. Any help much appreciated.
        Regards JUST J