Author Topic: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley  (Read 2292 times)

Online mckha489

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #27 on: Monday 21 January 19 01:47 GMT (UK) »
So to summarise concentrating on Eliza ROWLEY


30 Dec 1840 you have Birth cert for Sarah Jane HAYWOOD  father William HAYWOOD Hawker and mother Eliza HAYWOOD nee ROWLEY and baptism is online (dob 29 Dec 1840)

1841  census  in the Hamlet of Sneyd, Gallimores Square.  (Burselm, Staffs) 

William HAYWOOD  20  hawker  born out of County
Eliza HAYWOOD 20  born out of County
Sarah HAYWOOD 5 mths born in County

1842  you have birth cert of Mary Ann ROWLEY no father, mother is Eliza ROWLEY (and her baptism is on FindMyPast 9th June 1842 at St Peter's Wolverhampton. Parents Eliza of Princes St)

I do not believe there is any marriage for William HAYWOOD/HAYWARD and Eliza ROWLEY

1845 marriage of Eliza ROWLEY spinster. father G ROWLEY  to Joseph SIDEBOTHAM. Image is online

1851 census 70 Berry Street, Wolverhampton

Joseph SIDEBOTTOM    26 Key Smith, born Wolverhampton
Eliza  SIDEBOTTOM       30   born Wellington Salop = Shropshire
Mary Ann SIDEBOTTOM  8  b Wolverhampton   She must be Mary Ann ROWLEY b 1842
George SIDEBOTTOM     2 months b Wolverhampton  (George Sidebottom of Berry Street age 2                               months buried on 11th April 1851


         other possible children in GRO indexes are  Catherine 1845-1846
                                               William 1849-1849  both burials are in the Staffordshire Burial set on FindMyPast


1851 at 59 Berry Street is the BYNAM family.  Wife Priscilla being sister of Eliza ROWLEY  (her marriage to William BYNAM has father as George ROWLEY)


1852 death of Eliza SIDEBOTHAM  GRO ref, but I cannot see her in the Staffordshire Burials to     confirm

As far as I can tell there are no surviving Sidebotham children. Joseph remarries.


Baptism of Eliza

Shropshire baptisms are on FindMyPast. I cannot for the life of me see Eliza's baptism, or any of the other purported children of George and Rebecca MORRIS
Who btw, didn’t marry until 1816 (and Priscilla was apparently born about 1811)
George may be the George ROWLEY who was wounded at Salamanca 2 July 1812 and again in 1813 and subsequently discharged. So, was Priscilla his? I can’t see a baptism for any other Priscilla in Wellington or ANY children of George ROWLEY.  Do you have a source for the dates you have?

Online mckha489

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #28 on: Monday 21 January 19 02:07 GMT (UK) »
Quote
1842  you have birth cert of Mary Ann ROWLEY no father, mother is Eliza ROWLEY (and her baptism is on FindMyPast 9th June 1842 at St Peter's Wolverhampton. Parents Eliza of Princes St)

It's very interesting that when she married Charles DEW, she married as Mary Rowley HAYWARD and said her father was William HAYWARD a hawker.
Considering Eliza died in 1852 and that she didn't name a father for Mary Ann   it makes me think that William HAYWARD/HAYWOOD must have been around OR he was such a larger than life person that they are still talking about him 20 years later  ;D

Added and what about that business of Sarah Jane JORDAN saying he was Scottish and spoke Gaelic?  If that is true it makes me think he must have been around in her childhood at least. Not that there is any William Haywood/Heyward showing up on Scotlands people b between 1810 and 1821.

1841 William HAYWOOD  20  hawker  born out of County

 so unlikely to be the Wolverhampton birth  you posted in your original post
There is a tick in the Ireland/Scotland/Foreign parts column for both William and Eliza. We know Eliza born Shropshire, so, does that mean William was also born in England, but just another county.

His death you say c 1844.  I cannot see this anywhere.  Has it been assumed because of Eliza’s marriage to Joseph SIDEBOTHAM. 

Offline lotsahunters

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #29 on: Monday 21 January 19 05:41 GMT (UK) »
So from what I can tell a hawker is a gypsy - a traveling salesman. I doubt William was around much, if at all.  I wonder if it would help to try to find Elizabeth Grant. I wonder if Eliza married him, or if the two girls were illegitimate. The only census that doesn't say William was Scottish is one we are not absolutely sure it's Sarah Jane. Do you think William would have lied about his birth?

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #30 on: Monday 21 January 19 06:20 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I do not believe there is any marriage for William HAYWOOD/HAYWARD and Eliza ROWLEY

So, yes, I think both girls were illegitimate, and Mary Ann's birth reg doesn't even try to hide it. Who knows who her father really is.

Quote
Do you think William would have lied about his birth?
  Well, the ONLY information we have that can be relied upon to any extent is the 1841. He's 20 so anywhere between 24 & 20, so born between 1817 & 1821.  He is recorded as being born out of county, and there is no S or I (for Scotland or Ireland) in that column, just the tick, the same as Eliza. So I THINK on the basis of that he must have been born in England.

Sarah Jane must have had some reason to record Gaelic in that census. It's one thing to put Scots, because that's what you think, but Gaelic? You wouldn't think you would make that up.

You might have to have a DNA test  :)

Quote
hawker is a gypsy - a traveling salesman
  Yes, I agree. Not necessarily a Gypsy but certainly similar.  Hawkers had to have a hawker's licence and I have man who was a travelling optician who sometimes listed himself as hawker.

I just think it very strange when we have Eliza as ROWLEY in 1842, & at 1845 marrige to SIDEBOTHAM
Sarah Jane is ROWLEY in 1851 and also in 1866 at her marriage to John JORDAN.  Births of her children have mother's maiden name as ROWLEY - she is completely going by ROWLEY. and yet in the USA HAYWARD comes back in.

So why suddenly does Mary Ann become Mary Rowley HAYWARD in 1863 at her marriage.
but then in 1866 at birth of son Edmund DEW her maiden name is again ROWLEY not HAYWARD

 


Offline lotsahunters

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #31 on: Monday 21 January 19 16:39 GMT (UK) »
Well, I can speculate about that. John and Sarah joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints while in England. After John died, Sarah migrated to join them in the U.S. I am quite certain she did some research before leaving England and learned her birth name was Sarah Hayward. It must have been word of mouth, as she did not take on the original spelling. Someone told Sarah her father was a Hayward, someone told Sarah he was Scottish and spoke Gaelic. Based on what my mother has written about her, someone told Sarah she was of royal heritage. I haven't figured that one out yet, as it appears the family was researching the Jordan line for a royal connection, so perhaps she married into that belief.
I have looked and looked and cannot find William anywhere. He may have even lied about his name.
Another possibility is that he returned occasionally to sell his wares. Perhaps he told the girls he was their father after his mother's death Perhaps he told them he was of royal birth, so they took on his name then. Whatever happened, it wasn't until after the death of their mother that both girls took on the Hayward name.  Perhaps it's as simple as a falling out between them.
Why can't I find him? The birth and death are likely assumed by my forefathers.
I have heard that the parishes pressured fathers to support their children. Is it possible to find out if this was the case?
I have also heard that Hawker licenses can be researched. Do you know if this is true, and how it would be done? 

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #32 on: Monday 21 January 19 18:18 GMT (UK) »

1852 death of Eliza SIDEBOTHAM  GRO ref, but I cannot see her in the Staffordshire Burials to     confirm


Burial - Merridale Cemetery, Wolverhampton

SIDEBOTHAM Eliza
Age 36 years
Burial date 11 Jul 1852
Abode: Little Berry Street St.Peter
Daughter of Joseph, Keymaker
Grave: 8527
Notes: Consumption
Reg. No. G1/01538

Great website for Wolverhampton baptisms, marriages and burials
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
Robbins - Wolverhampton.
Spooner - Monmouthshire & Wolverhampton.
Warner & Loundes - Dudley/West Bromwich.
Dod(g)son - Heysham/Liverpool/Wolverhampton

Offline lotsahunters

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Re: Staffordshire, Wolverhampton; Shropshire, Wellington-Hayward and Rowley
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 22 January 19 02:54 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much! I'll start looking for what we have on George and Rebecca and their children. Did anyone find Mary Ann in the 1861 census?  Where did Joseph come from?