Pulling my hair out

[JAP]

Hi Peewee,

As far as I'm concerned it's a case of 'pedants of the world unite'!  I am ever an aspirant for the award of 'nitpicker of the year'.

It's late here where I live so I'll look into Hack's reference to Samuel Watts from Frome tomorrow.

The while, I trust, you will stop extracting material from what I hope is, and continues to be, a fine head of hair!  Not to mention that I trust that you will carefully remove all spanners and wrenches from the works and replace them on the shadow board for the time being.

Getting back to the matter in hand, have you checked out whether there might be any Wills for your family?  Wills can sometimes be very helpful indeed.

Also, if you want to look at any films of Parish Registers etc, there seem to be many LDS Family History Centres in Spain.  Details can be found by clicking on the relevant sentence on the home page at:
http://www.familysearch.org

All the best,

JAP
PS: lizdb - unfortunately the actual 1881 image is crystal clear.  It says, without any doubt, Rome England.  But, of course, it's more than possible that the enumerator got it wrong when copying from the householder's schedule.  As for the later writings - 'Ity' after Rome, and 'sub' after England (clearly not by the enumerator) - I would ignore them

[lizdb]

have you found him in 1891 or 1901?

[Valda]

The 1881 census allows for a search on occupation and there is a Stephen Watts, plasterer and tiler, born circa 1817 Wiltshire on the census in Bristol. He is there on the 1861 and 1871 censuses. In 1871 he is a painter. In 1861 a plasterer and painter. His wife was Sarah born circa 1818 Bristol. On the 1861 census the eldest child is Thomas born circa 1843 Bristol. I can 't find the family on the 1851 census. Stephen's marriage may have been in 1837 in Bristol, his potential spouse Sarah French.

None of that actually helps in the slightest in finding a Samuel Watts on the 1861 or 1871 censuses, or proves that Stephen and Sarah actually had a son called Samuel. The name seems common enough to allow for more than one Stephen Watts, plasterer.

Regards
Valda

[Peewee]

Dear Valda, Ive just moved from Bristol to Spain. Dont tell me they came from there after all this.

Dear lizdb: he died in 1885 so wont be in the later census'. As for the image of the census, yes I have a copy and it clearly says Rome.

Dear Hackstaple: That Frome Samuel in the Public House is the one that set off my doubts. My Samuel was a gunsmith not a publican and the wife's name is wrong as my Samuel's wife was Eliza. (As in theres a hole in my bucket dear liza........)

JAP, thanks for concern re hair but too late. Do you think the Kojac look will ever come back? No I haven't looked at wills but will do so now, but where do I look? Also thanks for Hacks look up whatever Hacks is.


Thanks everyone for your interest.
Peewee

[Sisterjane]

A few months ago I did a look up for someone and his occupation was ! Licensed Victualler and Gunsmith ! and strangley that was in a Public house. I cant remember who it was for though

Joe

[casalguidi]

Have you found Eliza Le May in 1871?  If not, when where was she born - perhaps Samuel is near her

Casalguidi

[Hackstaple]

Dear PeeWee - I have read back through your earlier postings and this thread too. I fear you have fallen into the trap that so many of us get caught in from time to time - that of casual assumption. I once spent half a year tracing part of my ancestry back - bought certificates and all, only to find that an unfounded assumption had led me to adopt total strangers as my relatives!
You have assumed, despite his stated age on the 1881 census [43] that he was born before 1837. We all know that our dear departed lied about age either in error or deliberately. However, until proven otherwise, always first investigate the stated facts. The second assumption is that the missing person can be found only under one name. He could be mis-transcribed as Walts or Waites or even more absurd names. He might not even be down as Samuel at all. I have a close ancestor who was variously Ada, Mary, Katherine and Kathleen.
Forgive an old man this impertinence but great patience is the key to family history research - there are no quick fixes.
I found a Watts born Rome,Italy in census searches but he was the son of a rather prosperous clergyman. He was not Samuel and his father was not Stephen - a fine example of a pale red herring.
Good luck - we will always try to help you.

[Keziahemm]

Hi Peewee,

Have found a Stephen Watts (Plasterer) in 1851 Bristol who has a son Samuel

1851 Index  HO107/1953  St.Barnabas, Bristol

WATTS Stephen  34  Plasterer  born Bristol
            Sarah  34                         ditto
            George  14                       ditto
            Sarah  12                         ditto
            Thomas  9                        ditto
            Samuel 7                        ditto
            John  4                            ditto
            James  2                          ditto
FRENCH Thomas  father  widower  70  Cordwainer  Gloucester

Hope this helps in elimination  

Susan 

                                    

[JAP]

Hi again Peewee,

I've been puzzling over your puzzle - and taking Hackstaple's wise words to heart.

You really have very little definite information, do you, at present.  So is there anything at all you can do to try to get any further information?  The only thing I can think of is to purchase all possible certificates just to see whether there is anything which might add another snippet.

Firstly Samuel's death certificate and then the birth certificates of William, Maurice, Joseph and Edward.

You never know - there might be some helpful clues e.g. address and occupation on the birth certificates (especially the earlier ones in Enfield), informant on his death cert.  But, of course, there may well be nothing that will help - however, at this stage, what other possibilities are there?

A couple of comments on Rome.

1. The description 'Rome England' in the 1881 census seems very odd - normally one would expect the county to be named.  But I guess everything we say about that entry is just speculation.
  Anyway, I looked at some other pages completed by the same enumerator.  His spelling is poor- and time and time again he simply omits the name of the county altogether (presumably the householder had not provided it and this enumerator didn't have a clue where the various places were).
  So perhaps when he came to copy the entry into his enumeration book from Samuel's householder schedule, he read the place (correctly or not) as Rome and either the county wasn't named or he couldn't decipher it - so perhaps he added 'England' as a clarification  because he was sure that it wasn't Rome, Italy?
  Did he ever add 'England' to other entries?  Well, I haven't gone through the whole 100 pages but I did see one entry where the birthplace is given as 'Eng, Gosport' (George Will Cannon on page 1)
  Did he use the names of other countries?  Did he himself ever use the term British subject?  Yes.  I noticed several entries for just 'Scotland' and/or 'Ireland'.  Also the following on page 28:
Weiss family, birthplace Werrt?emberg, Germany.
William Anwyl, birthplace Port Louis Mauritius Brit Sub.
I noticed another entry where he had recorded 'naturalized British Subject'.

2. The Rome found by ec is very tiny on the map - looks like just a couple of buildings.  This is confirmed by Genuki which at:
Click Here
describes the places in the parish of Giggleswick in 1822 including the following:
"ROME, a farm-house in the township and parish of Giggleswick, 2 miles from Settle."

3. There's also a Rome in Angus (Forfarshire) in Scotland!  But this too looks like just a single farm.

Good luck

JAP