Osman & Liddell family research (MONTROSE)

[kjmck]

I'll answer your other questions as best I can Annie


Where are those children in 1841?
I haven't been able to find either Agnes/Nancy, Mary, & John in 1841. And i've not been able to locate their baptismal records. Maybe those events just weren't officially recorded?

'Mary, on her marriage in 1856 is aged 22 (b c1834)', yes, her husband is listed as 21 on the Marriage record, but he was actually 20 as he was born 16/11/1835.

What info. is given on Mary's death re parents?
This is the info given on Mary's death record, by her son, Daniel McCormack.
Died 22nd April 1895, Age 58, Widow of Daniel McCormack (Packing Box Maker). 518 Rutherglen Road, Glasgow. PARENTS - John Fleming (Carter - Deceased) & Margaret Fleming ms Osmond (Deceased).

Where does Mary state she was born 1861/71/81 etc. until last census prior to death?

1861 - c.1837, Glasgow.
1871 - c.1834, Glasgow.
1881 - c. 1836, Glasgow.
1891 - c. 1836, Glasgow.

Side Note - in 1871, Elisabeth Fleming (Mother in Law) also residing with the McCormack family. Age - 63 (c.1808), Montford, Forfar.

What children (if any) are still at home with Elizabeth 1861?

In 1861, Elizabeth is listed as Mrs Fleming (55), Danie Mccormick (24), Mary Mccormick (24), Mary Walter (27 - Boarder), Mary Mccormick (2)

I haven't been able to find any marriages or deaths for Agnes & John. I have done many searches for them. I cannot find Agnes/Nancy in 1861, so i assumed she either married or died between 1856 and 1861, but haven't been able to find either.

What led you to Ossman (whichever variant) in the 1st place?

Well, my first clue was Mary's death record which gives her mothers name as Margaret Osmond. Though I knew this didn't fit as I had records with her mother's name as Elizabeth. On Mary's marriage record it is Elizabeth *man. On Elizabeth's death record in 1877, Mary gives her mothers maiden name as Ossman. On the marriage record for Elizabeth's parents Robert & Margaret, the name is transcribed as Osman.

Daniel McCormick & Mary Fleming also had an illegitimate daughter, who they named Elizabeth/Elisabeth. She died 26/05/1855 age 13 months at 125 High Street. The informant was Elizabeth Fleming (Grandmother)

Keelan

[Rosinish]

I think we should wait for the marriage cert. rescan.

So far Elizabeth has also been Mary/Margaret i.e. was it Marg rather than Mary?

Did she have a forename & middle name i.e. Elizabeth Margaret/Margaret Elizabeth 

The surname on the marriage could make all the difference as she herself may have been illegitimate using her father's surname 

Lots of questions & my reason for asking so much about Mary was the conflicting surnames.

I think it's rather strange the kids are not on the 1841 census with parents...are parents last on the page i.e. are kids on next page?

Annie

Add...Lovely name Keelan! 

[kjmck]

Hi Annie,

Have received the rescanned marriage record, will attach it with this record. I do believe it says Elizabeth Wiseman? What do you think.

Keelan

[kjmck]

Unfortunately the name Wiseman doesn’t help with the search.

Any suggestions anyone?

[MonicaL]

Hi Keelan

Certainly looks like Wiseman  You have enough already to know this is a likely error (pain though).

See this was a RC marriage. Were the family RC? If so, may explain why you have not been able to find too many details. RC records pre 1855 are even scarcer than the Established Church of Scotland/Presbyterian records from the OPRs.

Just adding a possible for Robert Osman with the Osmond variant. You mentioned that the 1805 marriage entry you have for Robert and Margaret showed his as a sergeant in the 8th foot regiment. See http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8827076

Monica

[Rosinish]

Hi Keelan,

Not wanting to contradict anyone (Monica has too much experience) but the new image is far too hard to read, is it possible you can post a better view of the parents names column please as this is a lot smaller than the original you posted?

I honestly can't see the mothers' ms as Wiseman (yet) 

I see from the original image posted (what I think) as a possible 4/5 letters prior to 'man'  ...

- - - - - man

The initial letter doesn't seem to look like the 'W' in Witness?
The letter preceding '?man' has a long upward stroke which doesn't resemble the 'S' in Deceased or Glasgow?
I think the letter with the long upward stroke may be an 'L' as the 'Ts' are consistent with a definite cross stroke elsewhere?

The initial letter seems the biggest problem to work out which would be a great help for working out the rest if it's not a Wobbleyou? 

Annie

[Forfarian]

Now that's interesting, because I instantly read the second mother's name as Wiseman, even before reading the rest of the thread. The letter at the start of the name looks similar to the 'W' of both Witnesses', though it has an extra curl at top left.

And the 's' looks quite like the 's' in 'solemnized'.

For a re-scan, it's still not a very good image.

[MonicaL]

Hi Keelan

Did you see the last reply on your other post?

Hi, all!
I'm a little late to the party, but:

"sergeant robert osman of the 8th regiment of foot & margaret liddle of this
  parish were proclaimed in order to marriage"

in Montrose.

Robert Osman is my 4th g-grandfather. Born in Chiseldon, Wiltshire 1766. He appears to have several brothers and sisters and his father (possible James Osman m/ Elizabeth) seems to have family there as well. All the dates look fantastic, but I'm still verifying this info. I just came across it today.

I also have James Fleming Duff (b. ~1850), 7th child of John Duff (b. ~1817) and Jane Osman (b. 1816).

The Osman/Duff family were in Linlithgow and Bo'Ness, West Lothian.

Eileen

Those details would fit with the link I added earlier https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8827076  Sometimes these army papers include wife and children's names. Worth maybe checking it out to see what it says?

The Jane mentioned above would be Elizabeth's sister?

Monica

[kjmck]

Hi All,

Apologies for the late reply, a broken laptop isn't conducive to getting stuck into some genealogy.

The re-scan was much better quality than the copy of it that I tried to send, and it definitely says Wiseman as the mother's maiden name. Strange though how the name was transcribed wrong.

Hi Keelan

Did you see the last reply on your other post?

Hi, all!
I'm a little late to the party, but:

"sergeant robert osman of the 8th regiment of foot & margaret liddle of this
  parish were proclaimed in order to marriage"

in Montrose.

Robert Osman is my 4th g-grandfather. Born in Chiseldon, Wiltshire 1766. He appears to have several brothers and sisters and his father (possible James Osman m/ Elizabeth) seems to have family there as well. All the dates look fantastic, but I'm still verifying this info. I just came across it today.

I also have James Fleming Duff (b. ~1850), 7th child of John Duff (b. ~1817) and Jane Osman (b. 1816).

The Osman/Duff family were in Linlithgow and Bo'Ness, West Lothian.

Eileen

Those details would fit with the link I added earlier https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8827076  Sometimes these army papers include wife and children's names. Worth maybe checking it out to see what it says?

The Jane mentioned above would be Elizabeth's sister?

Monica

I've had a look at the image on FindMyPast, and it unfortunately doesn't give anything away regarding family, as it is an document of Discharge from the military. It says he is roughly 49 years of age and was discharged due to being 'worn out'.

I have sent a message to Eileen hoping she has chance to respond.

Keelan