Author Topic: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876  (Read 769 times)

Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 06 April 19 13:45 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the update.

Did they marry in the Registry office?

Are the witness names any help?

In reply #10 I posted 1901 census for a Mangan family and asked if you had checked those birth entries particularly the Ballina one.

Here is the birth for that Patrick.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03064/2123153.pdf

Whilst being very possible, there is nothing to confirm that Patrick in Derreen is your Patrick though.
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Offline BenRalph

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 07 April 19 06:29 BST (UK) »
They married in St Francis of Assisi in Holbeck. I've no idea why it shows as the Holbeck District Registered Building.

The witnesses were Margaret's brother and a Annie Heald. I can find no connection to Annie.

The address they lived at was where Margaret's family lived at in 1901.

I've looked at the 1901 census you provided but I think Patrick would be with the family at that time. They married in 1906 and I can find him nowhere in England in 01. So I assumed he came over later.

I tried finding any possible relatives in the 1911 census living nearby but I can't see anyone with a similar job or in a similar area who's a possibility.

I know there was a Mangan family living in the same area in the 1880s as they're my family who baptised their children and married in St Francis.

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Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 07 April 19 08:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks.
I think the ‘registered building’ was explained earlier re Yorkshire BMD’s indexes.

I agree that Patrick Mangan in Mayo May not be him. The father does not have the same occupation but the birthdate and father’s name fits.

With regard to 1901, there is the one in Sheffield but, again, nothing to confirm.

I, too, looked for others around who may be connected and saw the other Mangan family. Is there no connection at all there?

At least you now have the marriage details - including the family church  :)

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Offline BenRalph

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 07 April 19 08:42 BST (UK) »
I, too, looked for others around who may be connected and saw the other Mangan family. Is there no connection at all there?
This is one of the reasons I'm trying to find more on Patrick. Patrick is my partner's 3x great granddad. The Mangan family that lived in Camp Field - pretty close to where Patrick lived after he married and his children grew up - are related to me via my great granddad. So I think it's likely they're related in some way. My Samuel Mangan came over in the 1860s so I assume Patrick would be his cousin/nephew as Samuel's children were all born in Leeds. Maybe John Mangan/Mannion was Samuel's brother.

Thank you for showing interest.

Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 07 April 19 16:33 BST (UK) »
They married in St Francis of Assisi in Holbeck. I've no idea why it shows as the Holbeck District Registered Building.

That would have been the format for a marriage performed in a non-Anglican church. A registrar had to be present for it to be recorded as a legal marriage. Without registrar's attendance it was a religious ceremony with no legal standing. I recall registrar seated at a little table in a corner of the church, within sight and sound of the altar,  getting on with paperwork during the marriage service. There was nearly an hour to fill if it was Nuptial Mass. S/he paused during the legal sections of the ceremony to watch and listen, turning attention back to work during purely religious parts. They were, in a way, operating a mobile registry office.
Registrars had an employment dispute in late 20thC and, as part of their campaign,  "worked-to- rule", refusing Saturday duty. This caused problems for couples who had weddings scheduled for Saturdays in Catholic and Non-Conformist churches where the minister wasn't licensed as a registrar. Solutions included a separate registry office ceremony on a weekday and registrar attending a wedding rehearsal.
The registrar should have signed Patrick's certificate as well as the priest. C. of E. marriage certificates don't have a registrar's signature.
Did Patrick sign the marriage certificate or make his mark?

Offline BenRalph

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Re: Patrick Mangan b Ireland 1876
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 07 April 19 17:15 BST (UK) »
I never knew any of that. Thank you for the explanation.

Yes, just looking now, it says
Michael McDuliffe Priest
Road Wordsworth Registrar.

In the bottom right corner. I'd noticed that there appeared to be something different on this cert but hadn't had time to compare it.

Yes he signed it. But in 1911 he put an x on the census.