John Fraser/Frazer born 1848/1849 Fife

[daljul]

I am trying to establish the ancestors of John Fraser

According to the 1851 census he was living at St Monance Abercromby Fife age 2 with Grandparents James & Isabel Budd and mother Margaret (surname shown as Budd).

This appears to be John
1861 census address 9 Back Lane Registration district:    Muthill
Civil Parish:    Ardoch County:    Ardoch, Perthshire Perthshire
Robert Whyte Ardoch, Perthshire 1816 age 45 Carter
Isabella Whyte    Ardoch, Perthshire 1826 age 35 wife
John Fraser Abercrenly, fifeshire 1849 age 12 Nephew ( think this should read Abercrombie, Fife)
John Fraser Blackford Perthshire 1856 age 5 Nephew

John is still with Uncle Robert and Aunt Isabel in 1871
1871 census address 9, Front Street, Ardoch, Perthshire, Scotland

Robert Whyte   Head   Married Male 55   1816   Inn Keeper   Muthill, Perthshire, Scotland
Isabella Whyte   Wife   Married Female   45 1826 Muthill, Perthshire, Scotland
Jane   Fraser   Sister-In-Law   Unmarried   Female 29   1842   Muthill, Perthshire, Scotland
John   Fraser   Nephew   Unmarried   Male   22   1849   Fireman On Railway Fife, Scotland
Janet   Fraser   Servant   Female 15   1856   Domestic Servant Muthill, Perthshire, Scotland

There is a marriage of Robert Whyte & Isabella Frazer married 19/12/1847  Muthill Perthshire.

John married Margaret Campbell married and John gave parents names as James Fraser and Margaret Budd. See attached.  James Fraser and Margaret Budd married 29 November 1850 • St Monance, Fife, Scotland. See attached. This is the birth/baptism of John Fraser. FRAZER
   
JOHN - JAMES FRAZER/MARGARET BUDD  M 13/02/1849  St Monance

This would seem to suggest that Isabella Fraser ans John's father James were brother and sister. I cannot find James on any census prior to his marriage to Margaret Budd. Nwither does he appear on any census with wife Margaret. So where are James and Isabella Fraser/Frazer on the 1841 census and why is he not with Margaret after their marriage?

Can anyone help please?
dinkey

[dowdstree]

All your census records seem correct.

However, on John's marriage certificate to Margaret Campbell his father is listed as deceased.

A well researched tree on Ancestry has his mother Margaret Budd marrying a James Greig on 24/5/1856 in St Monance. Worth checking this out on Scotlands People - Ref 454/6 - to see if she lists herself as a widow. Did John born 1848 have a sister Isabella born in 1853? If so his father James must have died between 1852 and 1856 but no death is coming up for him, sorry.

Dorrie

[dowdstree]

Another one to check on SP is a  death for a Margaret Grieg in 1902 aged 73 in Scoonie, Fife - Ref 456/98.

Hope this helps

Dorrie

[daljul]

Thank you for your information and help Dorrie.

John did have a sister Isabella born 1853. There was also possibly a child Robert Whyte Fraser born about 1850???

I would like to know more about John's father James Fraser. Where and when was he born? There was a James born in Ceres Fife born 1826, could he be the correct James? If so, did he have a sister Isabella who married Robert Whyte. Did this James also have a sister Jane Fraser born  1842 Muthill, Perthshire as shown on the 1871 census. Was the servant Janet Fraser born 1856 Muthill, Perthshire also related?

Sorry for all the questions but I am struggling to confirm John Fraser's father family to allow me to get further back.

dinkey

[dowdstree]

Robert Whyte Fraser - only 1 birth record found for this name - Born 7/1/1851 Crieff, Perthshire - parents - Angus Fraser and Janet Whyte - From the SP Index - Parish No 342 Ref 20 96.

Sorry, but no birth record found for Isabella Fraser but on the census records as you say she would appear to have been born in Perthshire. Have you looked at the marriage record for her in 1847 to Robert Whyte? Sometimes you get an extra clue from them e.g. father's name.

If Isabella and James were siblings then it points to James having been born in Perthshire too. Maybe this would discount the James Fraser born in Ceres, Fife in 1826.

Looking again at the marriage of James Fraser to Margaret Budd it says James is from the parish of Kirkintilloch if I am reading this correctly. Kirkintilloch is near Glasgow.

Unfortunately the further back you go before official registration in Scotland became compulsory in 1855 the more difficult it becomes to prove ancestors.

Just had another thought so I am away to check it out.

Dorrie

[Annette7]

If James and Isabella (married to Robert Whyte) were indeed brother and sister which seems extremely likely then her death entry would name her parents.

She died 18/1/1884 Braco, Ardoch (wife of Robert Whyte, Inn Keeper) - parents David Fraser, forester (deceased) and Isabella McEwen (deceased).   Informant was nephew John Fraser of Braco, Ardoch.

Found Isabella's baptism:

Isabel Frazer 12/6/1824 Muthill, Perth, dau. of David Frazer and Isabel McEwan plus 3 siblings: Hugh and John both bp.6/9/1822 and William 5/6/1833 but having found them on 1841 census in Braco Village, Muthill there were other children too for whom I can't find baptisms i.e. Alexander bc.1830, Duncan bc.1837, Thomas bc.1838, Jean bc.1839 and David bc.1841 plus, of course, a James.

However, 1841 Census in Muthill shows a James 'Frezar' (as transcribed on Ancestry) aged 10 working as a Male Servant for a James D. Burdan so this could be your James.

Annette

[Annette7]

I note that Margaret Budd is shown by her maiden name on 1851 (quite a common event in Scotland) but she is shown as married.

I found a James Fraser in 1851 census at High Street, Clackmannan showing as bc.1831 Kinfauns, Perthshire - married - a Blacksmith.  No family with him.   (He's not the one in Clackmannan in 1861, also a blacksmith, born Kincardine and unmarried.    This man was in Dunfermline in 1851).

Forgot to mention that I can't find a marriage between David Fraser and Isabella McEwan.

Annette

[daljul]

Thank you Annette for all the information which you have provided. I shall take note of everything you have found and hopefully I can pull it altogether to confirm the Fraser family.

I really appreciate all the time and effort you and Dorries have made to help with my query.

Kind regards
dinkey

[daljul]

If I could find James Fraser's death between 1853 and 1856 that would help me to confirm his mother's maiden name. It's proving elusive so far

dinkey