A House Through Time - Newcastle

[JenB]

oh yes

'Lit and Phil'  is that short for Literature and Philosphy ?  (tired head) 

You weren't paying attention last night 

The full title is the The Literary and Philosophical Society of Newcastle upon Tyne, but it's always locally known as the Lit & Phil.

[Finley 1]

Ah... Right.. no full attention diverted as there was ..... let me say a 'discussion' as to whether we watched the 'Pullitzer Prize' or this.. I won but had to watch quietly


xin

[goldnutmeg]

I enjoyed this with the same reservations as others. But felt he could have added more.

He said who the land was sold to but not who owned the land? Why was it called Ravensworth Terrace?

It turns out the 1st Baron Ravensworth http://bit.ly/2KlV0q1 was a coal mining magnate and uncle of Alice Liddell of Alice in Wonderland fame photographed as well by Lewis Carroll! Ravensworth was also patron and employer of George Stephenson whose family was mentioned in the programme as fellow residents in the terrace alongside the Swan ship building family (don’t know if Joseph Swan http://bit.ly/JosephSwan credited as the inventor of the light bulb was of the same family but he first demo’ed his invention st Newcastle Literary & Philosophical Society!).

Which makes it a little strange that he skipped over Richard Swan the first owner of no 5!

Entirely agree that 14 years old was working age. Even the first education legislation had children leaving school at 10 or 11! Also queried how rare mixed race was in a port. Of course with youngsters one does wonder who the mother/parents were? And maybe they were stranded cabin boys? Or not. It made me investigate more about umbrellas tho’ as, although I have an ancestor who made umbrellas, I’ve never looked into it. It’s seems umbrellas were a luxury item which also could be used as a mainly defensive weapon and also as an essential item for photographers!

It seems Joshua Alder took a fall with his investment in a local regional bank but was kept afloat by his friends and had an able companion in his sister who was more than a housekeeper according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography http://bit.ly/JoshuaAlder accompanied and assisted him. A bit like poet William Wordsworth and his sister Dorothy who received a grant from the Civil List at the same time as Joshua Alder.

And the medic also seems to have been kept afloat blaming pensionless women workers for his predicament.

I did wonder whether the pension/insurance cartels of shipping and the navy had come on land and professionals and the merchant class had similar forms of insurance/pension arrangements with an interest in keeping colleagues afloat and helped fuel the development of these housing booms?

[jfchaly]

I was surprised at the Size of pension from Civil List given to Joshua Alder.
I was also surprised that his sister had Independent means.

Larger houses have both staff and family, so there is a mix of poor and wealth.
I would have liked to see detail of auction or private sale of house when it was changing hands.

Loved the programme, did not see any of first series.

Jfch

[IgorStrav]

Given that the presenter, David Olusoga, is a historian, presumably he was fully aware of all the additional detail that he and the researchers found - you can only assume that in order to achieve the target running time, the team were subject to editorial restraints and had to cut back on a number of interesting elements.

Probably a joint decision, with the programme's producer having the final call on what went in, and what didn't.

It's always the same - in Who Do You Think You Are, we're all shouting at the screen when we spot those interesting elements on a (briefly shown) Census entry, which are not then subsequently covered.

And these issues about what was acceptable in previous years are all difficult.  I mentioned before that it's possible to query ancestors' judgements in either a moderate way ('one might wonder if he ever considered....') rather than with the merit of hindsight.

Those umbrella-stealing boys were 14, and evidently had had to look after themselves for some time in an era where children did start work early.  But anyone who's met a 14 year old knows that though they may give the appearance of maturity, they aren't grown up (whether in the Victorian age or now). 

And I bet the lawyer who insisted (doubtless for justifiable reasons in his own mind) that they be tried, knowing they'd likely be transported, would have regarded his own children as far too young at 14 to go through something like that.  One law.....and all that.

We perhaps shouldn't judge, but we can learn.

[josey]

Interesting points, goldnutmeg. And welcome to rootschat  .

I agree IgorStrav, time available limits range and detail. Probably every tenant & their stories in each episode could fill a programme of their own. 

It made me investigate more about umbrellas tho’ as, although I have an ancestor who made umbrellas,

Off topic I know -but I also have umbrella making ancestors [from 1810 - 1920s]. I have a few fascinating books about the subject. When you have made 2 more posts goldnutmeg - just reply twice more to this post if you like - we could exchange a personal message (PM) and I can give you the references.

[mckha489]

I agree IgorStrav, time available limits range and detail. Probably each of the tenants & stories in each episode could fill a programme of their own. 

They could gain a lot more time if they didn’t keep repeating things, and having that long winded introduction

[ChrissieL]

I really enjoyed the programme. It must be a difficult decision for the producers as to which bits to include and which bits to leave out. They have to make the programme enjoyable for the general public. I like the presenter and thank goodness he doesn't feel the need to dress up in period costume or try out activities as some presenters do!  I find the social history of each period of time very interesting too. All in all a definite thumbs up from me
Chris

[fiddlerslass]

The Alders were the children of Joshua Alder, a Cheesemonger and his wife Mary. Joshua senior's will is not online, but that of  his widow Mary is. She left £1200 , plus a half share in all her household goods and a further £400 secured in mortgaged properties to Mary.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6QDX-TH?cc=2358715