Railway mystery -- RedRoger needed!

[Helena_Wojtczak]

I would be grateful for the educated opinion of RedRoger or other railway expert on this.

I have long been led to believe that there were no women in the ASRS, however, I have found one!

Online ASRS records on FindMyPast.co.uk very clearly show that Elizabeth Parsons, aged twenty-one, was a "pointholder" at Toton 1. Elizabeth joined the union in 1901 and was excluded on 21st March 1903.

The 1891 census for Carlton, Nottingham, shows an Abraham Parsons, fireman, with a daughter Elizabeth, who was eleven, so her dates match. In 1901 he is a driver. In 1911 he is a "pointholder" - code 515. She is nowhere to be found in either census.

My question is, what is a "pointholder"? I've asked a few railway contacts and they don't know. Pointsman, yes, but pointholder, no.  Based on my extensive knowledge of Victorian railwaywomen, I cannot envisage a woman at that time being engaged as a pointsman i.e. akin to a shunter.

There were a lot of female gatekeepers but not single girls of 21, and I also cannot envisage why anyone would ever call one a "pointholder".

Can you make any suggestions as to what this job title means, please?

Thanks v. much!

Helena

[mazi]

I am as surprised as you are 

Toton was a huge marshalling yard, sorting wagons of coal from the Nottingham coalfields to many different destinations, these were sorted into intended destinations by pushing them over a hump
and allowing them to roll along,
The point holder would hold the points for one wagon, then quickly switch them for the next and so on until the entire train of maybe sixty wagons was sorted.
Then repeat for the next train.

Toton was huge, so an endless task, she must have been a big strong lass 

Mike

[Rena]

Until Redroger arrives to the rescue;  I suppose you've found the same 1921 description (below).

I'm inclined to think the daughter acted as the "pointsman or boy" who rode on engines with the driver.

A Dictionary of Occupational Terms Based on the Classification of Occupations used in the Census of Population, 1921

pointsman (or boy) (mines, quarries, works railways) ; latcher, latchman, loco latcher, shunter (mines, quarries, etc.)

    rides on locomotive with driver, couples and uncouples wagons, and alters points on works railway or sidings to control movements of vehicles.

****

pointsman, outdoor -     see ground frameman.

ground frameman, ground pointsman, ground signalman, groundsman ; outdoor pointsman
    a pointsman q.v. who moves hand levers in the open to work single points or ground signals and points in ground frames.

http://doot.spub.co.uk/code.php?value=701

In case it's of interest:-

t was not until 1871 that the first enduring trade union organisation emerged – the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants of England, Ireland , Scotland and Wales (ASRS).

The United Pointsmen's and Signalmen's Society was founded in 1880 as the United Pointsmen and Signalmen's Mutual Aid and Sick Society. The name was shortened in 1908. The United Pointsmen's and Signalmen's Society was never a large organisation, when it amalgamated with the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales and the General Railway Workers' Union in 1913 to form the National Union of Railwaymen it had just 4,101 members

The National Union of Railwaymen (NUR) was formed in 1913 by the amalgamation of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, the General Railway Workers' Union and the United Pointsmen's and Signalmen's Society.

[Helena_Wojtczak]

Thank you so much Mazi for that very comprehensive description. It's helpful to discover that it was a real job title. I was trained as a shunter 40 years ago (not that I ever worked as one) and I recall being taught about "hump shunting", which seems to be what you are describing.

It's going to remain a mystery how a girl came to be in the ASRS register as being employed in that job. It's driving me bonkers trying to work this one out!

Thanks also to Rena for the input. It's not right, though; sorry :-( The occupation in question is "point holder" not pointsman. Thanks anyway.

Helena

[mazi]

Nowadays she would be a “ pointsperson”. 

Mike

[Helena_Wojtczak]

Nowadays she would be a “ pointsperson”. 

Mike

The job would not exist today cos of Elfan Safety.

I still think there has to be a mistake somewhere. I just can't find out where.

I wish I could work out how to attach an image to my post so you could have a look at the original and let me know what you think.

[Helena_Wojtczak]

OOoh I have worked out how to do it.

Fourth line up. Fresh pairs of eyes welcome -- does this say pointholder? Does it say Elizabeth?

[Helena_Wojtczak]

Annoying to find a second Elizabeth Parsons born the same year 1880 same reg, district Basford. This one's father is a goods guard. None of this helps. :-(

[diplodicus]

Good article on Toton and its history with photos here:

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/how-toton-sidings-became-huge-257056

The scale of coal transport by rail is hard to understand these days. Toton Motive Power Depot (MPD) has an allocation of 155 locomotives and nearby Colwick stabled over 600 locomotives.