Who is the mother?

[Gadget]

Just found this from the D&G Archive ref that I gave in my last post:

https://tinyurl.com/yxo8xu9a

Unfortunately it only covers 1831-1846. It might have info about burials, etc. that might be relevant.

Add - I put in Cummertrees in the search box and got up this listing:

http://archives.dumgal.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe

[bevj]

Thank you so much.
Something to trawl through!
Bev

[MonicaL]

Jamsie, daughter of Thos Herbertson and _______ ______  Bapt., Sept. 1st 1807.
ScotlandsPeople have the mother as Birrell, with no Christian name.  I can see Birrell, but what is the next word, and where is her Christian name?

Bev and Gadget...this one has been on my mind today!

Jamsie is Jemma/Jemima! Jemima Herbertson married a John Wilson, grocer by trade. She died in Dumfries in 1897 at the age of 89. Her parents shown below on clip. Thomas less clear but Sarah Birrell it is.

This is her last census entry from 1891:

Jemima Wilson 84 b. Cummertrees
Mary L Wilson 31
James I Wilson 40
John Wilson 26
Mina J Wilson 13 grandchild

Address: 17 Queens Pl Dumfries

[Gadget]

Excellent,  Monica

Is he* a Farmer - funny rs - also in Sarah

*Thomas

[MonicaL]

Bev, I have seen a death quoted on family trees for Sarah Birrell of 10 AUG 1860. Have you followed this up at all. Can't easily see it on SP.

Her last census that I can see is from 1851 - www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=81204067

And from 1841:

Sarah Herbertson 50
Marget Herbertson 24
Jannet Herbertson 22
John Herbertson 20 ag lab
Sarah Herbertson 12

Address: Rigfoot, Cummertrees

Curious about the young Sarah in this entry...as I think she may be the daughter of George Herbertson and Margaret Birrell from earlier...

Monica

[MonicaL]

George Herbertson and wife Margaret Birrell in the early censuses:

1841:
George Herbertson 65 lab
Margaret Herbertson 50
Mary Herbertson 20

Address: Hawgell, Annan

And from 1851:

George Herbertson Formerly Cattle Dealer b. Dalton
Margaret Herbertson 60 b. Gretna
Sarah Herbertson 20 daughter b. Cummertrees...this is the Sarah I am curious about
John Herbertson 39 son b. Cummertrees
Jane Herbertson 11 grandchild b. Middlebie

Address: Howgill, Annan

Monica

[MonicaL]

Gadget, the death cert you mentioned earlier for Margaret Birrell Herbertson, I wonder if a possible mistake was made on her mother's maiden name?

The Margaret Herbertson, who died on 3 August 1866, aged 75, was the widow of a George Herbertson.  Address - Howgill Bridge, Annan. Parents - George Birrell, Farmer and Mary MS Gibson, both deceased. Informant - John  Herbertson, son, present.

I am wondering whether brothers married sisters? Therefore, George Herbertson, from Dalton, being brother to Thomas. Their parents being a George Herbertson and Mary Gibson (MI to be found at Dalton Cemetery with their details and also son Thomas's burial with them). Wondering then whether Margaret's son gave his paternal grandmother's name (Mary Gibson) rather than his maternal grandmother's name (Mary Elliot).

Some guesses and assumptions on my part for now 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Back to one of your original questions, Bev. What was the place name showing on George's birth entry in the OPRs.

I think it is where father Thomas died not too many years later in 1819 - Stenries.

From AKC's transcript of the stone at Dalton Cemetery:

....also of the Congregation of Dumfries also George Herbertson in Twathats who died 2nd February 1800 age 66 also Mary Gibson his spouse who died at Stenries-yet 18 Nov 1815 age 75  and of Thomas Herbertson their son who died at Stenries 1st Sep age 76 also John Herbertson merchant son of above who died at Maxwelltown 9 Dec 1883 age 67.[/b]

I think the age at death of Thomas Herbertson on the stone is obviously a mis transcript or maybe not clear on the stone - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1P-NN1

Clip from the 1807 OPR image below. Note the mark under the n is actually the flick of a J from the word below.

[MonicaL]

Location of Stenries from late 1700s map (see http://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/parish/Dumfries/Cummertrees)