Desperately looking for 1861 census result and who is tricky older brother?

[osprey]

possible remarriage for Ann Saunders march qtr 1864 Pontypool vol 11a pg 186 with Thomas Jeremiah on the same page

1871 Mountain Level, Panteague RG10/5336 folio 32 pg 57
Thomas Jeremiah head mar 64 iron founder b. Mon, Llanover
Ann wife 56 b. Montgomeryshire, Llandinam
Margaret Stephens boarder 84 b. Cards, Aberystwith
Elizabeth Evans niece 29 b. Glos, Forest of Dean

death regs
Mary Jeremiah 55 dec qtr 1862 Pontypool vol 11a pg 79 (wife of Thomas on 1861 census)
Thomas Jeremiah 64 dec qtr 1872 Pontypool vol 11a pg 75
Ann Jeremiah 70 sept qtr 1885 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 55

[jomcd967]

Brilliant Osprey, I will buy the marriage certificate to check her maiden name, but that looks the most likely of all the other options I’ve been looking for. Due to not finding anyone in 1861 I’ve been focused on marriages/deaths between 1851 & 1861......I feeel pretty silly to not have expanded past that date 

You’ve given me great hope and reenergised me to search under broader parameters, thank you everyone who contributed.

Cheers, Jo 

[josey]

Just an aside

they don’t appear to have had any children so that is a dead end....

but it does show a Thomas Pugh as witness; perhaps if the Thomas you seek was Ann's child before marriage he reverted to name Pugh after he left home...though the witness could also be a cousin or uncle.

[osprey]

I wonder...

1861 census 3 Bedwellty Rd? Colliery 2nd Row Uchlawrcoed RG9/4000 folio 33 pg 3
Thomas Pugh lodger mar 24 coal miner b. Pontypool
Margaret Pugh mar 20 b. Pontypool

marriage 23 Dec 1860 parish church of Bedwellty
Thomas Pugh 24 collier Tredegar, father William haulier
Margaret Jenkins 20 Tredegar, father Elias collier
witnesses Elias Jenkins & George Bennett, all mark

Haven't spotted a Thomas Pugh with father William before the 1861 census in that area. Possible burial in Bedwellty for Thomas Pugh aged 34 of Tredegar 9 April 1872.


 

[osprey]

think the burial must be another Thomas Pugh as it looks like the family emigrated, like many other mining families, to Pennsylvania

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZG9-WV1

birth regs for children
Ann Pugh dec qtr 1867 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 98 mmn Jenkins
William Pugh jun qtr 1869 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 104 mmn Jenkins
There had been earlier children
Ann sept qtr 1861 mmn Jenkins
William jun qtr 1862 mmn Jenkins death reg jun qtr 1866 age 4
Emma dec qtr 1864 mmn Jenkins death reg march qtr 1867 age 2


Margaret's parents also in Carbon, Pennsylvania. The Wm Robins in the household married Margaret's older sister Martha dec qtr 1857

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZG9-P8T

and her brother, Elias, also in Pennsylvania in 1880, 9 year old born in Wales, 6 year old in Pennsylvania.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWN4-ZWW

[osprey]

1900 census, Thomas gave his date of birth as April 1837, so before civil registration & baptisms for this family not showing online so possibly non-conformist. Although date given for Margaret's birth is incorrect as she's on the 1841 census as a few months old, so not born 1845. If she were, she would have married at 14 as they had been married for 40 years.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M33H-2RW

Birth 3 April 1837 according to this
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q243-QPBP

[jomcd967]

Thanks Josey and Osprey,

Late last night I came to the same conclusion regarding Thomas Saunders/Pugh, it seems as if one appears at the same time one disppears. I also tracked them to PA, quite a few of my lot seem to have ended up in the same area of Pennsylvania, and have them pencilled in at this stage, but a baptism record would be perfect.

I will follow up on the marriage certificate for Ann and there are a few options for the death of William, a few more certificates to buy yet.

So, I guess 1861 must be part of the missing census records for that time and at least I know it’s ok to give up on finding it now, enough missing pieces filled in to finally be sure of Johns family.

A huge thank you for all of your help and inspiration.

Cheers, Jo