Author Topic: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton  (Read 2438 times)

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,097
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« on: Monday 22 April 19 09:31 BST (UK) »
Various secondary online 'sources' seem to be agreed that Grizel Durham, daughter of James Durham of Pitkerrow, married John Middleton, later the first Earl Middleton, that there is or was a marriage contract dated 1639, and that there were three surviving children, the youngest of whom was Charles, second Earl Middleton, born 1649/1650.

However the said 'sources', and others, are in some disagreement about Grizel Durham's previous marriages.

She is said to have married first Sir Alexander Fotheringham of Ballindrone and second Sir Gilbert Ramsay of Balmain. One 'source' says that there is or was a marriage contract between Alexander Fotheringham and Grizel Durham in 1608. Another 'source' suggests that her second marriage was dissolved because Sir Gilbert was still living in 1663, and that he was married to and had a child with Elizabeth Auchinleck after Grizel married John Middleton and before her death, said to be in 1666. Other 'sources' suggest that Sir Gilbert was born in 1570 and that Elizabeth Auchinleck was his first wife.

I have found two primary sources so far. One is the will of Alexander Fotheringham in 1624, most of which I have yet to decipher, but I can make out, quite clearly, a mention of Grizel Durham.

The other is the marriage record of Gilbert Ramsay and Grizel Durham in 1630: 1630. 2 of March. Sir Gilbert Ramsay Laird of Bomaine and Girsell Durham in the paroch of Dundie war married be Mr Thomas Ramsay minister at Kirkden [Monifieth Parish Register]
(See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=811810.0)

Clearly, if Grizel Durham married Sir Alexander Fotheringham in 1608, she must have been born not later than the 1790s, and cannot therefore have been the mother of a child born in 1649/1650.

Also, dissolution of a marriage was such an exceptional event in the 17th century - even in the 19th century it required an Act of Parliament -  that it must have required action at the highest level, but so far I have found no definite evidence for the marriage of Gilbert Ramsay and Grizel Durham having been dissolved.

So my working hypothesis is that there were (at least) two Grizel Durhams: one who married first Sir Alexander Fotheringham and later Sir Gilbert Ramsay, and another younger one, who married John, first Earl Middleton, bore his children and died in 1666.

There is at least one more Grizel Durham from a primary source: 1628. 27 Januar. James Durham in Cadgertoun had ane chyld baptizit called Grissell witnesses Patrick Mitcheson and David Dog. [Monifieth Parish Register] However this one would have been only 11 in 1639, when the alleged marriage contract with John Middleton was drawn up; and her father is 'in Cadgertoun' not 'of Pitkerrow'.

Thoughts, anyone?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline mckha489

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,565
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #1 on: Monday 22 April 19 09:41 BST (UK) »
I am totally ignorant in these matters but..

The marriage contract in 1639...could that not have taken place when she was 11 and the marriage not consummated until she was 16 or so?

Do you know when their first child was born?

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,097
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #2 on: Monday 22 April 19 09:51 BST (UK) »
The marriage contract in 1639...could that not have taken place when she was 11 and the marriage not consummated until she was 16 or so?
Do you know when their first child was born?
That is quite possible. The first known child is said to have been born in about 1642, when she would have been 14.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline hanes teulu

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,587
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #3 on: Monday 22 April 19 10:22 BST (UK) »
"The decisions off the English judges, during the Usurpation, from the year 1655 to His Majesty's restoration, and the sitting down of the Sessions in 1661
Author - Great Britain Court of Sessions, published Edinburgh 1762

It includes the case of "DURHAM contra DURHAM and spouse Jan 28 1656".

The gist is (I think!!) a Mr James Durham of Pitkerro is the husband of Alison Clerk, daughter of Sir Alexander Clerk. Alison makes certain bequests to her daughters Marion and Grizel - and the decision is challenged/questioned by Marion and her hubby (not named). By this time Grizel is married to a John Fletcher.

There are no information to determine the ages of the parties involved.


Offline whiteout7

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,948
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #4 on: Monday 22 April 19 11:43 BST (UK) »
What was their religion?

"Under canon law, a woman can not be bound by the marriage contract as she was entered into the marriage before reaching the age of twelve"

If she was Catholic then an annulment of a marriage or two would be less serious that a disolution surely?

I found this note:
Was she an only daughter?
"Scottish History Society - 1890
His first wife was Grizel, only daughter of Sir James Durham of Pitkerro and Luffhess, by whom he had a son, Charles, afterwards second Earl of Middleton, and two daughters"

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,097
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 April 19 11:44 BST (UK) »
Thank you.

Grissell Durham and John Fletcher were married in Edinburgh in 1647 (SP index). As her father was James Durham of Pitkerrow, could she be a niece of the one I am interested in?

I also note two references, both in Monifieth, to the marrage of a Grizel Durham to David Alexander in Monifieth in 1649/1650. There is a sasine referring to Grisel Durham, daughter of William D of Umoquhy and spouse of David Alexander of Revinsbie.

Also sasines referring to Sir James D of Pitkerrow in 1684-1692, and to plain James D of Pitkerrow and his spouse Alison Clark from 1620/1621 to 1675/1678. Could these be two different James Durhams, father and son, I wonder? The only sasines referring to Alison Clark are in 1642/1648.

If anything, this actually muddies the waters :(

Unless of course the writers of the secondary 'sources' have been making assumptions and got something wrong.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline whiteout7

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,948
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 April 19 12:00 BST (UK) »
Grizel married to John first Earl of Middleton was later married to William 4th Earl of Morton too, so there is something amiss!

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=UJFIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA287&lpg=PA287&dq=sir+james+durham,+Luffness,+fife&source=bl&ots=8lgvL3N3Me&sig=ACfU3U3ptOpEnOoR5eVZOiD-r8-bPK2v7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0u4GIxOPhAhWSfn0KHT44ADkQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sir%20james%20durham%2C%20Luffness%2C%20fife&f=false

Amendment Grizel Middleton, daughter of Grizel Durham seems to marry William 9th Earl of Morton

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,097
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #7 on: Monday 22 April 19 12:09 BST (UK) »
Amendment Grizel Middleton, daughter of Grizel Durham seems to marry William 9th Earl of Morton
Yes, I believe that to be the case. Though I have seen a 'source' that said he was the 4th Earl of Morton. He was succeeded by his brother and it seems that there are no descendants to look for.

I also note with interest that there does not seem to be any mention there of Alison Clark, spouse of James Durham of Pitkerrow.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,097
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 April 19 12:58 BST (UK) »
What was their religion?
I have no evidence one way or the other about their religion before marriage. Grizel's husband John, 1st Earl Middleton, was a supporter of Charles II and followed him into exile. Her son Charles, 2nd Earl Middleton, was a prominent Jacobite, forfeiting his title and estates in 1695 because of his adherence to the cause of James VII, so it seems probable that the Earls Middleton were Episcopalian.

Quote
"Under canon law, a woman can not be bound by the marriage contract as she was entered into the marriage before reaching the age of twelve"
If she was Catholic then an anulment of a marriage or two would be less serious that a disolution surely?
Perhaps.

Quote
I found this note:
Was she an only daughter?
"Scottish History Society - 1890
His first wife was Grizel, only daughter of Sir James Durham of Pitkerro and Luffhess, by whom he had a son, Charles, afterwards second Earl of Middleton, and two daughters"
I have no idea. Certainly she had two daughters, one of whom married the Earl of Strathmore and the other the Earl of Morton.

There are sasines mentioning three daughters of James Durham of Pitkerrow named Elizabeth (1642/1648), Grisel (1620/1621), and Isobel (1660/1684). The time span of about 60 years does suggest that there were two James Durhams of Pitkerrow.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.