Grizel Durham, wife of John, first Earl Middleton

[whiteout7]

This source states:

As published in The History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1660-1690


Grizel daughter of Alexander Durham of Easter Pourie, Forfarshire

A bit different from being the Daughter of James Middleton of Pitkerro then ?? Makes you wonder?

I'd use the oldest sources you can find over later ones

[whiteout7]

I will retype this as I have no idea what I have just done

Was Grizel, in fact the daughter of Alexander Durham of a place called Easter Powrie in Forfar?

https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/middleton-charles-1650-1719

[Forfarian]

Was Grizel, in fact the daughter of Alexander Durham of a place called Easter Pourie in Forfar?

Now there's an interesting idea

All the other 'sources' say that she was the daughter of James Durham of Pitkerrow, but all the 'sources' are secondary 'sources' and they could all be perpetuating the same error.

There are no sasines referring to Alexander Durham of Easter Powrie, but there are sasines referring to James Durham of Easter Powrie, whose mother was Helen Ramsay and whose wife was Margaret Muir. He was born in 1622, son of John Durham of Easter Powrie, and was a minister in Glasgow from 1647. His first wife was Anna Durham, daughter of Francis Durham of Duntarvie, and their son Francis was Francis Durham of Pitkerrow

[whiteout7]

There are no sasines referring to Alexander Durham of Easter Powrie, but there are sasines referring to James Durham of Easter Powrie, whose mother was Helen Ramsay and whose wife was Margaret Muir. He was born in 1622, son of John Durham of Easter Powrie, and was a minister in Glasgow from 1647. His first wife was Anna Durham, daughter of Francis Durham of Duntarvie, and their son Francis was Francis Durham of Pitkerrow

James Durham born 1622
" In the civil wars he served as a captain, under his brother Sir Alexander Durham"
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/nation/durham.htm

The Grizel Durham could have been born before 1822 though? Maybe?

[Forfarian]

The Grizel Durham could have been born before 1822 though? Maybe?

1822?

If the marriage contract of 1839 with John Middleton is genuine, she must have been born before 1627, and very probably before 1622.

But if she is the same Grizel Durham who was married to Sir Alexander Fotheringham and Sir Gilbert Ramsay, then she must have been born a good long time before 1622.

[whiteout7]

1822, lol (written at 2am where I am)

It is a shame that women were considered politically unimportant and their ages not recorded


 

[barryd]

Ancestry has numerous references to one or more Grizel Durham.

[Forfarian]

Ancestry has numerous references to one or more Grizel Durham.

Thank you.

I searched there for Grizel Durham (with name variants) in Scotland and there were 102 'results'. When I looked at those there were in fact only 28 results for that name. The remaining 74 supposed results were for people with an initial G somewhere in their name.

Of the 28, one is from a tree and gave the name of her spouse Alexander Fotheringham, and her birth date as 1624. As I have a copy of Alexander Fotheringham's will dated 1624, which mentions his wife, this is clearly nonsense.

Six of them are member trees, which I may look at next time I have access to Ancestry. However I never trust online family trees, and there are already plenty of contradictions in the ones I can access without resort to Ancestry. (One calls her 'Countess' which is incorrect.)

All of the rest are extracted from indexes more readily available, and free of charge, at Scotland's People.

Correction: there are 44 are results for the name. It seems that Ancestry, unlike FamilySearch, doesn't arrange results so that the closest matches are all grouped together, but scatters them at random among the ones with an initial only. Of the 16 additional results, 15 match listings on SP, and the other one is another tree.

[Forfarian]

I have just acquired a copy of the index to the Kincardineshire Sasines 1600-1608 and 1617-1657.

They list the following

10 March 1632 Grissel Durhame, spouse of Sir Gilbert Ramsay of Balmane
2 June 1640 Grissel Durham, spouse of John Middilton, son of Robert Middiltoun of Caddam (Caldhame)
8 July 1651 Grissel Durham, spouse of John Middiltoun of Fettercarne
21 November 1656 Grissel Durhame, spouse of Sir Gilbert Ramsay of Balmane

which I think is sufficient to prove that the marriage of Gilbert Ramsay and Grizel Durham was not dissolved before the marriage of John Middleton and Grizel Durham in 1639, and therefore by inference that there must indeed have been two different Grizel Durhams.

What do people think?