Anthony Murphy

[oldohiohome]

Do you have access to the image of the 1871 Census? There is a Booth family on the same page as Anthony and Mary, but they are all born in Lancashire. Could they be relatives of Mary. The marriage record in 1851, Manchester, was of Mary Booth and Anthony Murphy.

The image also says that the daughter Mary was born in Cavan, maybe you already said that. If so, it's unlikely that Anthony is the father.  - and might explain why Mary is in England, maybe with an uncle and aunt?

I'm guessing now and am tired on top of that, so not thinking very clearly. But you do need to find a birth rec. for a couple of the children born in England just to get Mary's maiden name.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp gives the mother's maiden name for the birth, look there for the children.

[oldohiohome]

I thought that I did say that his name was Anthony Murphy from Galway born 1836.

Sorry, you did.
Is this them in 1861 in Ardwick, Lancashire

Anthony Murphy    35
Mary Murphy    30
John Murphy    8
Patrick Murphy    5
Catherine Murphy 2
Mary Murphy    15

If so, look for the births at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ and you will get Mary's maiden name. Or are you saying it is Murphy also?

Their marriage is probably nearby also. Send for the record and get both father's names.

That should be 1871 not 1861

[julie Thorborn]

Thanks for the help I shall get digging

[oldohiohome]

I'm going to keep looking, do you have ancestry.com or other access to the UK census images? I've got them in 1881, 91, Anthony's death (1899) a son Edward's marriage (1899, after his father's death). But there is a limit to what you can post on here from copyright sites.

and here is a more likely marriage,but I'm still trying to match the maiden name with the results on the birth records


3rd qtr 1862
Murphy    Anthony         Manchester    8d   589    

O'Brien    Mary         Manchester    8d   589

[julie Thorborn]

Thanks I don't have ancestry but I will dig out your suggestions I am just a lot slower on the phone 

[oldohiohome]

Links to transcriptions on familysearch.
1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZP6-HKB

1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-VH9X

1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7CKS-Y2M

BMDs
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
and
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

You might try posting a question on the Lancashire sub-board also. If you do, give them a summary of what you have found so far and link back to this thread to save people some time. They should know more about where to look in England than I do.

I'm starting to wonder if the elder Mary was married before she married Anthony. Then married Anthony using her married name. -> I can't get those indexed marriages to line up with the mother's maiden name of Murphy children born in Manchester in the time period. 

If I figure out anything else I will post it.

[julie Thorborn]

Thanks I love the way you can think of possible scenarios, I still not sure if they would marry someone age 15, or that Mary's name could have been Murphy too! Cavan and Galway are not close, I like the neighbour scenario 

[julie Thorborn]

I have more info on Mary. Her Manchester children are from Mary Brady. But her marriage to Anthony has 2 names; O'brien and Brady. So she had a child at 15 and a 3rd marriage before she was 21! I have now a needle in the haystack.

[oldohiohome]

Congratulations and good work on finding the births and marriage. So her maiden name was Brady and she had married an O'Brien.

It would all fit together a lot better if the younger Mary Murphy, age 15 in 1871, was born in Galway, not Co Cavan. Have you found her anywhere else? It will be almost impossible to pick out the right Mary Murphy.

And did Mary (Brady) marry Mr O'Brien in England or Ireland?

Or, thinking out loud, maybe the younger Mary Murphy was actually born O'Brien and took Anthony's name when her mother married him. That would make her mother a lot less profligate . And make it more likely that Mary Brady would be able to keep the child, since she was born in a marriage.

So maybe, you are looking for a marriage in Cavan between Mary Brady and Mr. O'Brien, with a daughter Mary soon after. Then maybe a death of Mr O'Brien in Cavan or Manchester.

Remember that the elder Mary could be more than 15 years older than the younger Mary--you only have the census ages to go by. The youngest child I found for her was Edward, born 1873. So the question is, how old was she when she stopped having children?